Tig and her CFM Server

“Group Notice From: Spijkers & Wingtips, Tig Spijkers

The CFM server I received was to remove/return apparently ripped illegal content.
This has caused a lot of distress with many aviators.
This has been more a headache for myself than it was worth educating the aviators that frequently visit my airfield.
Many of you have expressed your disappointment and thus I’ve decided to remove it.

I understand your point of view and that you have paid a considerable amount of hard earned money to fly you aircraft in SL.

Blue Skies,

Tiggy”

For those of you not in the know the CFM Server is an Admin Tool created to assist those who run airports who decided to support Legal Content by banning confirmed Mesh Ripped products from their land. The server contained a list of products and creators and would periodically scan the region, auto-returning anything in it’s list, though only a few of them seem to be programmed to inform the user that it had done so. It was a rather stupid thing, quite buggy, laggy at times and more often than not it didn’t work. Bia Fall ,for example, loved to show off how useless the server was each morning at Honah Lee Surf by parading up and down the runway in her Husbands aircraft and consequently pissing anyone off who was trying to land there.

Tig, for the reasons she stated above, decided to remove her server. This has been proclaimed as a Victory. A victory for anti-censorship, a victory for freedom of speech, freedom of movement and a victory against the Monopoly of those nasty spitefulls who will do anything to hurt Dani just because they are jealous of his “talent”. Or is this a Victory for the movement which openly harassed and abused a Woman ,who has recently lost her Husband, to tears because you couldn’t fly your plane over her house. A Victory for a movement which cased so much distress and anxiety for an entirely selfish purpose.

I’m sure those people are proud of themselves.

Here’s a thought, the Dani Supporters are always telling us to stop worrying about ripped mesh and just enjoy what we have. Shut up and fly is their motto, well here is once for you. Why don’t YOU shut up and fly, the rest of us can’t fly Dani planes either through choice or through a principle of ethics and therefor cannot experience the overwhelming euphoria that you all claim to have, so how about you do as you preach and fly those planes, if you know an airport that’s banned them, don’t fly there, if you know people who object to it, smile and wave and you fly past, in other words maybe it’s time to take a good long look at yourself in the mirror and if you ever think you can get your way by abusing and harassing people like some school yard bully then you can get the fuck out of our community.

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55 thoughts on “Tig and her CFM Server

  1. Hear hear. The people who made that stupid CFM server to be used to bully people flying aircraft they legitimately purchased (legitimate until LL says otherwise, not some group of self proclaimed grid cops) should consider leaving the community. Especially as some of them have themselves used content of dubious origin in the past.

    I didn’t even know Tig had installed one of those. The airstrip on her island isn’t really well suited to any of the planes of Dani’s I own. If I land there it’s in something suited to a short narrow dirt strip runway. I’ve never had occasion to overfly the island on my way somewhere else. I’m sorry she was harassed over it though I’m glad it was removed.

    For all the drama over ‘airports banning Dani planes’ there are only four. Two of those are over in Jeogeot which isn’t exactly a hub of activity in the general aviation community. Of the 100 or so where most do fly, there are two. That’s it. Hardly an impediment to flying whatever you want. In this case I actually agree with Mal, just fly and ignore the mesh cops. Ignoring them will piss them off far more than arguing and protesting against them.

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  2. Steve Lowry says:

    It is a slippery slope giving people the power to make decisions like this especially in airports or other spaces that invite the public to use their sims or parcels. First of all who can say if the decisions are informed by correct facts in all cases. Second it opens an avenue to allow opinions of people to color who or who may not use a particular airport or other public space. This could include a builder who may decide to only allow his or her own goods to be used on a sim. While they have that right it is not especially wise to even open an airport if that were the case if it is restricted to a few. May as well start putting up ban lines and booting people who buy from other vender’s no matter who they may be. Maybe even just get rid of folks you simply don’t agree with instead of being tolerant.

    The slippery slope is empowering people to make those decisions instead of being an open community. Once we start down that slope SL is no longer a viable place to be for those of us who enjoy the open environment of SL.

    Just my rambling folks take it for what it is worth.

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    • fortnightbaxton says:

      Nice logical Fallacies. Appealing to emotion and the Slippery Slope.

      Dani got caught. The non-combat aviation community is highly vulnerible to getting DMCA’d, so Tig took action the only way she knew how.

      Scream Censorship all you like. Dani is still a thief.

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      • Propeller says:

        I agree with you, but who had to take action should have been the legit copyright holder or LL, not Tig or other residents.
        A better approach would be just informative: the server could have sent only messages, instead of derezzing planes too, for example. Don’t forget that some people, likely most, had no idea of the ripping or of the problems it raises. They spent thousands L$ for stuff… that one day could turn into an IP-xxxxx object instead of a plane, without refunding… in the best of the cases. And they should hope to be seen as victims of a fraud, rather to be accomplices and/or supporters of a business based on IP infringements (if the accuses are proven to be true and legal action is taken).

        On the other hand, I know that probably LL does nothing until they receive a DMCA, also to file a DMCA to a Brazilian won’t be so simple anyway and SL market is so small, that maybe it doesn’t even worth the trouble so much to take actions (although Dani sold quite a number of planes). Plus DMCA is so dumb, that it can have absurd side effects. Do you remember what happened to Curio skins?

        So I can understand that in this lack of fairness and justice, someone is tempted to defend by themselves and to take action. But “attacking” Dani’s costumers resulted counter productive: you put them on defensive and in their eyes you become the villain, rather than Dani. Of course anyone can do what they want in their own parcel (as long as it’s compatible with LL TOS), but if you want that people listen and support your side, to “punish” them doesn’t seem the best way.
        I guess Tig realized that. She was eventually harassed and there is a lot of griefing around too, but Tig is a good person and she doesn’t deserve that. Perhaps she may have been naive in this situation, but that’s all.

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        • Rebecca says:

          Nothing justifies harassment though, and that is what happened. Own up to that then we’ll start untangling this mess.

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      • Propeller says:

        Rebecca, I agree that there is no justification in harassment.
        To understand doesn’t mean to justify. Instead, when you want to put your hands in the tangled electrical cables, you should first know what those wires do and why they are there, all of them, and to get the whole picture. Defining and understanding the problem are among the first steps in problem-solving. The best way to add mess to the mess is to fall in the common fallacy of confusing understanding with justifying (thus avoiding understanding, and acting blindly or short-sighted as result)
        http://www.logicallyfallacious.com/index.php/logical-fallacies/71-confusing-an-explanation-with-an-excuse

        Understanding these dynamics is the first step to deal with them. It has nothing to do with justifying harassment, not only, but and as I said, Tig didn’t deserve that, plus I have been harassed as well, so I know what is does mean.

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  3. fortnightbaxton says:

    I’m starting to think those supporting Dani are taking a cult-like level of insanity.

    The evidence was clear, and the only reason why people are defending Dani is because of a conspiracy theory that Aeon is the antichrist of SL.

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  4. fortnightbaxton says:

    Also, Tig is one of the few builders with an uninterrupted line of service to Second Life, wither with the Second Life Coast Guard, her building business, or others. Yet SHE is the most harassed builder in SL.

    I never thought I would see an example of Misogyny in one of the most accepting communities on the internet, but there you are.

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    • “I never thought I would see an example of Misogyny in one of the most accepting communities on the internet, but there you are.”

      It was until one group of builders set themselves up as product inspectors and enforcers and managed to hijack the SL Aviation group for their own agenda. I wish Tig had put her foot down then to stop that in it’s tracks and maybe things wouldn’t have spiralled they way they have.

      I don’t have to defend Dani. He’s done nothing many others including Tig and Aeon haven’t done themselves. If you accept that using any content models or otherwise you don’t have commercial rights to is equally wrong, they are equally guilty. No amount of hair splitting or sweeping it under the rug will change that.

      The ones who should be defending themselves are the bullying hypocrites who can’t stand that somebody is wildly succeeding making a type of aircraft they had plenty of time to get in on the market for but didn’t because they wanted to make what they wanted to make. There’s a 727 in development right now that a number of us are just waiting to throw L’s at the maker to buy. The passenger and general aviation aircraft market is still there. I’m sorry that it’s a bigger market than exists for combat aircraft or vintage aircraft, but that’s where the demand is and those making aircraft for that market are going to sell them.

      The same group also talks about how bad his scripts are. I still cringe a little at the behavior of Dani’s planes when the flaps go down, but at least it’s consistent. Once you understand what it’s doing, landing them in a manner which looks good is dead simple. That last bit seems to be lost on the “I know how real aircraft work blah blah blah” creators. We don’t want ultra-realistic, we want planes that look good and have features that make us look good to the passengers we carry. If you wonder why none of the airlines use the CRJ, that would be why.

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      • fortnightbaxton says:

        Nice dodge with an accusation. Prove Tig’s stolen.

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      • Xio says:

        For someone who is all about SL, you sure lack a back bone when it comes to broken TOS.

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      • fortnightbaxton says:

        Hey Xio… I got more backbone than you’ll ever have with drive-by attacks.

        And Crim, you’re exactly the person Mal’s railing on. I wager you and the other supporters of Dani just circle around this blog waiting for Mal to post up another hit-piece. Don’t you have anything else better to do with your day?

        Like posing as supporters of Shana trying to stir the shit with Tig?

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  5. They’ve all used photos for instrument panels ganked off the net they had no commercial rights to use. That’s no different than using a stolen mesh. They’ve all used trademarked logos they most certainly didn’t have the rights to. The overhead panel in Erick Gregan’s DC-10 is straight out of FSX. It’s also the panel from a 737 if you want to get specific.

    Tig isn’t the one most at fault for starting the shitfest, but she is damn responsible for letting it continue in a group she founded and which was, up until that point the centerpiece of SL Aviation, and I mean all of it. It might as well be called the Tig, Aeon, and Tank Show now.

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    • Karl Reisman says:

      I don’t. I’ve worked int he video games industry professionally. My textures are painted, and my mesh is all original. bringing in the commercial issue is obfuscation of the REAL issue, of the mis-appropriation of the work of other game artists, and brought into SL, for illegal compensation. You Sir, deliberately obscure the issue by bringing up the fact that real Aviation Companies have models of their planes built at all. The commercial companies tolerate this for FSX. The problem is that others (not just Dani) have been appropriating the work of others, and with minimal modelling and poor scripting, have sold them. This is wrong. Crim you are wrong, and you support an evil practice for your own selfish satisfaction.

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  6. Albert Elson says:

    Everyone on the grid, Linden Lab, model makers from FSX and their Aunt Ethel have heard about Dani’s Airplanes.

    Yet instead of being taken down and removed from our inventory, The skies and Airports in and around the Blake Sea are filled with Dani’s models and people enjoying their Second Life experience while flying them.

    Mean while the airports supporting the embargo on “aircraft of questionable origin ” sit empty with the exception of a huddle of unhappy people spitting stomach acid and bile on people who walk past them with their hateful talk.

    Anyone in Second Life that has been in the aviation community for awhile can see this embargo as and endless cycle.

    A few years ago the embargo was on Niki Wilder’s aircraft. This embargo succeeded back then due to the limited amount of combat areas.

    This of course is not working this time around with the passenger airline crowd is it?
    Everyone knows your game and they are ignoring you while they flying around and having fun.
    So now we have blogs vomiting more hateful nonsense to the crowd.

    Such actions were underway against Shana Carpool’s airplane models and instead of getting angry and having their Second Life experience tarnished by the hate, this group created their own area and removed themselves from the drama leaving the unhappy people behind in their unpopulated airports.

    Unless you suspect that your own work has been stolen, it is none of your business where a particular model came from. No one is obligated to open their files and show proof of any kind to anyone other than Linden Lab.

    Linden Lab did not hire any of the sad face groups to police the grid and condemn people for flying other models besides the one’s that the sad people built.

    Why are the sad people’s sales down? It is not Dani Fall harming them, it is their own ugly attitudes that is chasing people away.

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    • fortnightbaxton says:

      Meanwhile Dani’s paid hatchetmen go to these airfields and troll incessantly. Tig has records of the harassment, particularly when the trolls try to start drama between legit builders like between Tig and Shana.

      Also you know you sound like a 10 year old saying “Sad Face Groups”.

      And it is our business where models come from. Particularly if a model is stole from someone who could sue SL into oblivion.

      And if you’re wondering why the stuff Dani has made hasn’t been removed? DMCAs take a while to resolve.

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    • Why are the sad people’s sales down? It is not Dani Fall harming them, it is their own ugly attitudes that is chasing people away.

      Well that and the last attempt any of the self appointed lords of aircraft creation made at a modern fixed wing aircraft for the general aviation or airline fliers was that miserable CRJ which flies with all the grace of a lead turd.The last one before that was the Twin Otter. It was an excellent plane when it came out but it came out around three years ago. One useable modern plane in three years and Dani is hurting your sales by creating aircraft for that market? Just how does that work?

      Oh, and speaking of that CRJ, 110 of them have been issued tail numbers. 110 sales of an aircraft is pretty darn good even if they only get tried once or twice and then sit in inventory limbo. I don’t see how it’s sales were hurt. The only thing hurt was the ego of it’s creator when none of them were to be found flying between airports that actually mattered. That’s what I think this whole thing is really about. It’s not about what people want to buy, it’s what they want to fly. These creators keep telling themselves and anyone who’ll listen they could make better aircraft than Dani with one hand tied behind their backs. If the measure of ‘better’ is the plane Joe Average SL pilot would enjoy flying, I don’t think they can deliver. I think deep down they know they can’t either.

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      • Rebecca says:

        You talk like a child.

        “Sad people”? Really? You’re a troll.

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      • Siris Vulpecula says:

        I’ve actually given away a pretty fair number of those CRJ’s as well so registrations don’t’ necessaries tell the whole story there. In fact I do generally give away an aircraft for about every three I sell. As for this supposed boat load of cash I’m apparently extorting from the community I would love to know where it is, can you kindly point it out for me? It would save me the trouble of a negative checking balance, water and gas disconnects and the electric company breathing down my neck while i scrape rent together. I make a pretty funny tycoon don’t i?

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  7. Albert Elson says:

    “Meanwhile Dani’s paid hatchetmen go to these airfields and troll incessantly.” Troll who? These airports are usually empty and there is no one there to troll.

    “And if you’re wondering why the stuff Dani has made hasn’t been removed? DMCAs take a while to resolve.” Not really. In the past anyone could file a DMCA (whether they are right or wrong) about the theft and within days the content was removed and the person who uploaded the suspected copybotted content had their account blocked from logging into Second Life until a counter DMCA was filed.

    This was a tool used to harass other content creators whose new product line was costing them sales on their old items for sale.

    If this content was truly stolen or an illegally uploaded model, it is the person whose work was stolen responsibility to file a DMCA not a group of self appointed mesh police who want to accuse others of wrong doing.

    No creator has to prove anything to anyone else in Second Life about the origin of their work.
    Not to you, not to Tank, Karl ,Mal or anyone else that is sitting up on their high horse judging other people.

    Climb down from your perch and go enjoy something in Second Life.

    If Second Life is so boring to you that your only amusement is putting other people down and causing trouble for the other residents out here, log off and find a new hobby that excites you and leave the rest of us alone so that we can enjoy our time when we log in.

    Like

    • fortnightbaxton says:

      So you condone piracy. Thanks for wasting my time with such a long post when you could have said that.

      Like

      • Karl Reisman says:

        Unfortunately with these types, they will weasel out of this charge by whining if it’s not proven in a court of law, then it’s not piracy. No. it’s still Piracy.

        Liked by 1 person

  8. Steve Lowry says:

    Piracy or not it does not give anyone the right to fall down that slippery slope of being everyone’s policeman and removing the innocent buyers ability to be in a parcel because of act of flying a particular aircraft into an airport. Personally I do not feel that anyone should have the right to police everyone’s choice of purchase. Why not just restrict anyone from your parcel if they wear a red shirt…

    Come on folks one bad decision does not need to be followed by another. Let’s not travel the slippery slopes.

    Like

    • Steve Lowry says:

      Before anyone gets the wrong idea. I do not condone piracy. I also don’y condone banning folks for purchasing a pirated item as they may not have been aware or don’t understand the situation.

      Like

    • Karl Reisman says:

      It is completely up to Parcel owners and renters to allow what is,or what is not allowed in the parcel. LL gave us tools to do that, and the CFM Server is simply another tool we now use. We have had success educating the Locals in Jeogeot Gulf about the airport policies there. I know there has been a similar effort that was carried at on at Honah Lee Surf for many months BEFORE the installation of the CFM server, but that effort w2as actively pooposed to the piracy supporters in the Blake Sea. If we choose to disallow TOS violations whether it be ripped mesh, or Nude or adult attachments seen in public, we are within our rights to take action as we see fit.

      Liked by 1 person

  9. Steve Lowry says:

    Spoken like a true hero lad. Actually I was accused from SL Aviation of piracy even though that ended up proven unfounded. Who are you to be someone’s judge and jury. Leave that to Linden Labs and the courts. In the mean time keep following that slippery slope as it will prove you out in the end.

    Oh yes and if it is a public airport and not a private airport your arguement falls down badly when you impose restrictions on who gets in and who doesn’t. If they break TOS such as nudity you are in your rights to ban them but for flying in a particular brand of aircraft you have crossed the line and are now well on your way down that slope.

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    • Rebecca says:

      One problem: The community cought Dani. People KNOW there’s been theft going on. The evidence is clear as day.

      What is making the community toxic are the paid shills like you.

      And stop with the slippery slope bullshit, that is a logical fallacy.

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      • How about this hypothesis. Let’s say people believe the self appointed mesh police. Many don’t simply on the basis they’ve been acting like jerks while Dani keeps making planes that are fun to fly, but lets say they do. Have you considered that many don’t care. That’s right they don’t give a rat’s patoot where the models came from. One of Dani’s planes costs the equivalent of lunch at a fast food place or for me (since I don’t use real money for SL) 2-3 DJ sessions worth of tips.

        A new Dani plane comes out. I can either wait on the off chance one one of the mesh whiners makes something I want to fly in the next two years or buy the plan now and have fun with it. Guess what I’m going to do and not even feel the least bit guilty doing it? Right, I’m going to buy that plane and have fun flying it until the next aircraft I like comes out (Dani or otherwise) and I’ll get that one and fly it. Rinse repeat. I’ve hurt nobody. The whiners can jump up and down and scream about it all they want, but we can’t buy planes they aren’t making and the ones they are making have mostly been pretty disappointing. They keep giving dire warnings of downloaded mesh driving the ‘true creators’ off the grid. Just how is that a threat? They haven’t made anything modern I’ve wanted for well on 3 years. Stay or go, but it’s about time they realize nobody is listening to them or likely will in the future. If they’d shut up and start making some decent modern planes that fly like the customers want and don’t try making them flight sim aircraft, they might see more of their planes in the sky. Until then we know what’ll be in the air 80-90 percent of the time. Their issue, not Dani’s.

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      • Rebecca says:

        And Crim, you’re a coward for not letting me reply. A yellow, uninformed little shill for a thief and harasser.

        Come back when you grow a backbone and have a thought for yourself.

        Like

    • Rebecca says:

      Also, “spoken like a true hero”?

      Heroes run into buildings and die for a greater cause. Not harass someone.

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  10. Rebecca said “And Crim, you’re a coward for not letting me reply. A yellow, uninformed little shill for a thief and harasser.”

    I neither enabled or disabled replies. I posted mine as usual and waited for your predictable personal attack since you seem to not be able to actually address any points made by those you disagree with. Blame the Blog site being used for this for limiting replies in a given thread tree.

    Sirius, I was being charitable and not assuming you’d comped a bunch of them, but my point remains, there are 110 of them out there and even those you comped aren’t flying them and more or less never did. I suppose that’s slightly disingenuous. We both know in general the main visibility for most planes is gone after a few weeks or at best until the next shiney new one comes out. You used the term ‘extorted’ not I. Charge what you wish for your aircraft. You do make a good point, nobody is getting wealthy making aircraft in SL. At best you can make some side money at it and not very good money if you figure the time it takes. It’s supposed to be mostly for fun.

    I’m sorry to hear about your financial difficulties. Perhaps you should stop trying to buy failing airports for the purposes of pushing an agenda that’s pretty well going nowhere. You claimed originally you and the the others just wanted to educates people about the origin of the mesh aircraft they were buying. I doubt there are many who aren’t aware of it at this point. Your education campaign succeeded. Your attempt to force people to act differently because of that knowledge is and will continue to be a stalled failure. I think you may have stopped a few people from buying aircraft from those you accused of mesh ripping, but at this point, the methods you and your group are using are so antisocial that nobody will listen to the message. In fact I’d not be surprised if some hadn’t bought planes from Dani and the others you don’t like just to spite your group. Dani didn’t do that. You and your group did.

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  11. malcious says:

    @Crim & @Rebecca I want to make it perfectly clear that I have never, nor have I any intention of, censoring or preventing someone from leaving a comment with very few exceptions, if you want to make an arse of yourself in a Public space you are more than welcome.

    Also Crim, what you just said was quite possibly the most idiotic and hypocritical thing I’ve ever seen. I understand that some people don’t care about where their plane comes from, after all if there wasn’t people like that there wouldn’t be a market for Grade C eggs or Slave labor clothing from Pakistan, but what you’ve just righteously proclaimed is madness, you know Dani doesn’t give a shit about the community, he makes no investments nor promotions other than himself, he is quite literally only in this for money and you happily state that he and people like him are free to do whatever the fuck they want so long as you get a new shiny every month, that is not a future I would like to love in and I’m sure neither would you if you actually understood what that actually meant.

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    • @Mal “you happily state that he and people like him are free to do whatever the fuck they want so long as you get a new shiny every month, that is not a future I would like to love in and I’m sure neither would you if you actually understood what that actually meant.”

      No, that’s pretty much exactly what I mean. Within the confines of what LL allows, do what the hell you wish. I’m not hypocritical. I flat out state I don’t give a flying rat’s ass how a creator makes their aircraft. At the end of the day, the aircraft from somebody who grabs a model off the web and the one who models every bolt and rivet and takes two years are equally valid. If they both fly decently, look reasonably good, and can cross sims without issues most of the time, great that means more good aircraft to choose from. Neither maker is interfering in any way in the other making a good aircraft. The former might end up with more pixel dollars in pocket over that two years, but that doesn’t in any way harm the latter.

      You say Dani is only in it for the money. That is quite possibly the most idiotic statement I’ve seen you say. Nobody is in it ‘for the money’ because the money, even for a successful aircraft, sucks. Figured by the hour invested, I would wager migrant fruit pickers get paid better. That includes the ones Dani sells by the way.

      Let’s talk about greed shall we? Dani’s latest plane, the Grand Caravan, gives you 3 different versions with or without floats and cargo pod. He could easily have sold them separately and done a ‘fat pack’ for those who wanted them all. That’s what somebody in it for the money would do. Lets see, Who likes doing ‘fat pack sales? Who is it that charges for a whole new plane because it has floats instead of wheels again? Who was it who repeatedly said there’d be a price break on the C-47 for those who bought the original DC-3 and failed to follow through? Before you bring up the Twin Otter and An-2, I will acknowledge Aeon’s lapse of avarice on those two aircraft.

      As far as the ‘contributions to the community’ thing, if you consider splitting it two, highjacking a previously pleasant and useful group, turning people off to even giving aviation a try in SL, and reducing the fun many have flying, then thanks so much for the contribution. You all certainly aren’t contributing any planes to the mix. At least not for the general aviation and passenger flyers.

      Guess what? We have a community that’s working just fine and you all have no say in it. That is what’s really driving you nuts. Heck, you do such a good job for the combat flying community that at least two groups have felt the need to get their own areas away from Jeogeot in order to simply have fun and not be harassed for using aircraft that you all would agree are completely legitimate. Kudos to them. You all don’t want a ‘community’ you want a fiefdom with you and your associates at the top. You had it that way for quite a while and have blown it. It’ll never be that way again. You’ve burned bridges with too many people. Best accept it and go on. Hopefully sooner than later.

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      • Rebecca says:

        “At the end of the day, the aircraft from somebody who grabs a model off the web and the one who models every bolt and rivet and takes two years are equally valid.”

        No. You saying that invalidates every opinion you have.

        Someone who downloads an aircraft and puts it online and makes money off of it is a THIEF AND A FRAUD. Someone who goes through the effort of actually making a model deserves all the credit.

        They are NOT equal. Not in the slightest.

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      • Rebecca says:

        Oh and thank you for saying we don’t have an opinion but the grand poobah Dani does. You’re a zealot. A useful idiot. People like you make the community toxic as we have to constantly wade tyhrough your bullshit!

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      • malcious says:

        “No, that’s pretty much exactly what I mean. Within the confines of what LL allows, do what the hell you wish” Other than the fact that uploading things to SL without their creators permission is against TOS, not to mention illegal, what you’ve basically agreed to is that any corporation that makes planes can do what they want, so you agree that it’s of for Amok Dynamics to dictate what vehicles are used on their property and what are not allowed.
        Meaning your entire argument has no basis.

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  12. Steve Lowry says:

    The slippery slope is that you can not fix one wrong by doing another and once you start down that slope then all will follow. I am surprised and dismayed that no one else seems to see this.

    If that makes me a shill so be it. However I have never purchased anything from Dani nor ever will. If folks would all stop buying from Dani or other other makers that do this then it would be a null issue. However that does not excuse others from behaving badly either.

    Ever hear of two wrongs don’t make a right? Maybe they do not teach that anymore. Sad…

    Like

  13. I totally agree that Aeon and Tank can set whatever policies the TOS allows for their pixel land. Now they don’t get the right to do that and not have it commented on, affect others opinions of them, or even affect people’s willingness to buy their creations. In general I won’t at this point any more than you and your friends are going to go out and buy any of Dani’s.

    Your opinions are valid as opinions, but they are not universal truth and not shared by all (or even most if you look at what’s being flown these days). I don’t care if you buy Dani’s planes. Doesn’t affect me in the least, but I will state that it’s my right to buy them for myself and not be harassed while flying them in places they are otherwise welcome. It should be fairly obvious at this point that those who have made up their minds as to which side to be on aren’t going to suddenly see the light and switch because of further debate. You all will continue to feel as you do and probably feel a renewed surge of outrage when Dani releases his next plane in another 2-3 months and it becomes the one people are flying and all your screams of anger will once again fail to stop anyone who wants to buy one. That makes one wonder who you are screaming to impress?

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    • Rebecca says:

      1: Did Dani download their parts that they used for their aircraft. Yes or No.
      2: You think it’s fair to people who actually MAKE their parts to be constantly beat by someone who doesn’t even put in the work? Yes or No.
      3: You think it is productive to talk down to everyone here and in SL to make this situation worse? Yes or No.

      Less propaganda, I wanna hear what you think about this.

      Like

      • Rebecca said 1: Did Dani download their parts that they used for their aircraft. Yes or No.
        2: You think it’s fair to people who actually MAKE their parts to be constantly beat by someone who doesn’t even put in the work? Yes or No.
        3: You think it is productive to talk down to everyone here and in SL to make this situation worse? Yes or No.

        1. Probably yes, then again so has Tig in the past. The question really should be do they have the right to use the models. To that I answer yes until proven otherwise.

        2. How are they beat? They aren’t making planes of the type I’d buy regardless. The CRJ wasn’t ‘beat’ because of the model or the time it took. It was beat because it didn’t fly well. Unless you are the sort who considers that somebody doing well means another must do badly. There has been no ‘beating’ on either side. Dani selling a lot of planes doesn’t preclude somebody else from selling a lot of planes. If I wanted combat planes, I wouldn’t be getting them from Dani. He’s the only one making new general aviation planes on a regular basis though.

        3. Less so than you and you’re friends. We’re happy to be able to fly what we want and be left alone.

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      • Rebecca says:

        Also Crim, when did Tig download parts or aircraft for her sales? Instances and evidence. You keep HOWLING for us to provide evidence (which we have) on Dani’s downloading… only fair the other way around. Oh wait, Dani is above reproach and judgement!

        Like

  14. I have plenty of reading comprehension. I just chose to ignore your ultimatum as I ignore you and your friends when it comes to my decisions about what to buy and fly. I simply don’t care if you like it or not.

    She bought the models for sever helicopters and the RB-M boat. Note I said bought and that purchase included the right to use them for commercial purposes and didn’t exclude SL. There was nothing wrong with that, but they were downloaded mesh created by somebody not on SL. I encourage you to ask her. She has no reason to deny it as the models are not hard to find and the UV maps for them exactly match. She now has Syl doing her models which has increased the detail level significantly as the NH-90 and Bell 429 demonstrate.

    Be offended all you want by Dani and his planes. Being offended really doesn’t matter that much. I mean nothing actually happens. That’s what you and your friends have yet to figure out. At this point you all have about the influence and effect of one of those loud, yappy, ankle biting lap dogs. Do you even stop to consider how you all would sound to a newcomer to SL aviation or SL in general? Compare that to the group most likely to be flying Dani’s planes, the SL airlines. We love offering noob’s flights. Do you think we even mention the controversy? Hell no. We give them the best experience we can and many end up wanting to try it themselves. Who’s planes do you think they are most likely to end up buying? You haven’t figured out that the general aviation and airline community is it’s own community at this point and you all aren’t part of it. How do you think you have a chance of dictating what we do? Why should we give you any more consideration that we would a yappy dog?

    Like

    • Rebecca says:

      Thing is you just blew out your own argument, Crim. You said Tig downloaded her parts and materials WITH the proper permissions. That is how it should be done. People in SL do that all the time with full perm prims and stuff from the Marketplace. Thing is Dani has downloaded planes and parts from an online source with NO record of permission to do so and is making money from it. The onus is on Dani.

      My main issue with Dani’s supporters is how they are organizing their own little jihad after anyone who objects to Dani’s methods. That and they have organized shills to try to ferment trouble between builders.

      Tig’s group was regently besieged with trolls trying to start something between Tig and Shana. There’s people calling Tig a trannie in SL Aviation, hell I was called that by the same assholes.

      Thing is the trail leads back to Dani’s camp as they would be the only ones profiting. Your group acts like they got the high ground, yet they have pulled some pretty low down tactics.

      It’s also amazing how people seem to lap it up.

      Like

      • slfs says:

        I have bit one thing to add here

        Ve are all Aeon Voom

        Funny how fast that dropped when it became a joke

        Like

      • mcgregortamm says:

        (Thing is you just blew out your own argument, Crim. You said Tig downloaded her parts and materials WITH the proper permissions. That is how it should be done)

        that statement kinda kills the sales patter on mp pages tho
        (Model & Textures created by Sylvira (sylviramaus) Owner of .: Virtual SYL Design 🙂 for even if you use the original as a pattern that brings it to the copy botting stage and i know that didn,t happen as the wire frames show its the original model used so not created by sylvira

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  15. Not really, it has yet to be proven that Dani doesn’t have permission and you have no way to do so. Your opinion, or intuition, or desire to be right doesn’t prove a damn thing. If the holder of the rights to those models (assuming it’s not Dani), objects and files a DMCA (the cost of a stamp or Fax), that will be definitive proof. Filing a DMCA takes all of 5 minutes. I’ts not hard to do. The rest is just a bunch of hot air.

    Tank claimed (he’s made a lot of claims) that he contacted the holders of the rights to a few of the models Dani supposedly used. Claimed DMCA’s were imminent. He kept claiming that until it was obvious they weren’t. Now even the victory (such as it is) with the one helicopter from Aerofly isn’t going to be enough to get people to listen. He’s the fox that cried wolf. There are several possibilities. Tank didn’t contact anyone and was lying. He contacted somebody, but that somebody wasn’t actually the holder of the rights to the model which means they couldn’t file a DMCA. The people he contacted were the legit rights holders and they simply didn’t care enough to file a DMCA. You all seem to think the decision is going to be that of an artist protecting their creation. It’s far more likely going to be a simple business decision. That might well come down to “Not worth our time or energy to pursue. We’ve gotten all the profit we expected from this model. We don’t even care if it goes public domain.”

    So this concludes my arguments on this topic because there is nothing short of a DMCA that will convince most and the chances of that happening grow less and less as time goes on. Take care.

    Like

    • Propeller says:

      Had Dani bought the models, he could have simply claimed that from the very beginning, as that would have been the best defence. He didn’t. Instead he and Bia kept claiming it was Dani’s work, and Bia kept saying Dani was such a master at building stuff. Plus he showed some screen-shots of his alleged plane models, to support that claim (actually those don’t prove much as he could simply have loaded the ripped model into the 3D modeling software and took some screen-shot). So your hypothesis that perhaps Dani bought the model in a legit way doesn’t hold, as it isn’t supported even by Dani himself.

      As for your possibilities, I contacted some FSX and X-Plane maker myself and indeed they confirmed that they were aware of the IP infringement and they were taking action, but that was months ago. So I doubt that Tank claims were lies, but it’s true that eventually they didn’t took action (so far). Thus either they just told so, but they weren’t actually doing so, or the closest right one of your possibilities is likely “didn’t care enough to file a DMCA”, but not because
      “Not worth our time or energy to pursue. We’ve gotten all the profit we expected from this model. We don’t even care if it goes public domain.”
      but more likely:
      “although that rip it’s not legit, SL market is so small, that eventually it doesn’t worth our time and energy to take a legal action (yet)”
      I don’t really think that their work can be taken as public domain now, just because they didn’t file a DMCA yet lol. It’s like you stole a couple of apples from your neighbour; he stares angry at his tree, but he doesn’t call the police this time, so you think that perhaps he is okay with having his apples being stolen and his apples are free for everyone now.
      Furthermore, although rare, DMCA can be countered, in that case you have to file a lawsuit or to seek an injunction in court, which involves time and expenses. Also a counter-notice can also damage the defender (as happened in SL with Curio skin vs. Hush case) so it isn’t exactly just a 5 minutes thing and perhaps not everyone feels like to mess with legal stuff.
      Or maybe they are just taking time for now or something else. You can’t know if they would never file a DMCA.

      Lots of stuff is ripped in SL anyway, and DMCA or not, people can have a moral by their own. Also to turn wireframe mode on or to compare textures isn’t such a big effort, not to mention other evidences. As you know something is ripped, then either you grasp at straw or you take your own conclusions and you don’t go to your friend who steals your neighbour apples, just because you want them and there are only oranges in the shop.

      Like

  16. Siris Vulpecula says:

    Because why the F**k not? 50!

    Like

  17. […] after all has caved to public pressure before, back when she had a CFM server covered here and again prior to that when she quickly changed her mind over the banning of “Dani […]

    Like

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