The F.13 and a short political rant regarding Aeon Voom

Here is the tale of the F-13, it’s an odd tale about an odd plane.

f.13_001

In the sense of a review there is nothing offensive about this plane. It handles very much like it’s larger brother the JU-52 (THI) and comes complete with all the little quirks you would come to expect from Adventure Air, such as Aeon Voom’s complete lack of understanding on the basics of the Laws of Physics ,the same HUD used in every one of their other planes and the completely unnecessary giant Adventure Air logo that appears above the Aircraft any-time you’re browsing the menu options.

f.13_002

The Aircraft is not by any stretch of the imagination an easy plane to fly, with a turning speed akin to an Oil Tanker and a flight core that looses speed (and therefore height) every time you turn too steeply; it comes off as something that is forcing you to behave as if you had your mother in the back seat and had to fly in a manner that wouldn’t upset her or her drink.

I say “your” mother because just like Yo Mamma if you bank too sharply she falls out her seat and the sudden shift of weight causes the plane to plummet out of the air.

Clearly this is not a plane for the Thrill seeking stun man.

f.13_003

This is not to say this plane cannot be fun. Once you get the hang of things it is a simply joy to fly. It is responsive, elegant in it’s own manner and has some of a cheesy “old timey” feel to it being that the “pilots seat” is actually some sort of smoking lounge chair and as your eyes drift over the instruments and display panels, you could be forgiven for thinking you were in a vintage sports car, everything is bolted on and finished with a brass or silver polish. If Second life has Smell-o-vision (and I’m quite thankful it doesn’t) this plane would smell of Leather and Cigar smoke.

f.13_004

The F.13 wouldn’t look out of place in a Steampunk region, as a mail carrier, a passenger service for small families, or one man and his favourite bottle of scotch taking a short trip by Plane because it’s faster than the Airships.

f.13_005

This, however, shouldn’t distract you from the slight issue this plane has, and when I say slight it’s a big one and probably the reason this plane isn’t selling too well.

At 5’4 my recently impulse bought Furry Avatar is short by SL standards and RL standards, In the F.13 he fits just snugly inside. My regular avatar stands at 6’2, tall by RL standards but still on the short side by SL standards, when seated in the F.13 his head lightly clips through the pilots canopy. And now you start to see the problem. My third Avatar stands at 7’7 and is a representation of the “average” male avatar in SL, we use it for testing. He cannot fit into the plane as a passenger and as the pilot he awkwardly sticks out of the aircraft like the owner of a compact driving down the freeway with his new Ladder.

furry_001 furry_002 furry_003

To recommend this I would have to ask, do you have L$2,400 to spare? Do you like vintage things? Is your Avatar under 6 foot tall. If your answer to all of these things are “yes” then by all means buy this plane, it makes for a great grid cruiser, it crosses sim borders smoother than anything I’ve known and it comfortably fits five people. IF however any of of those questions you answer “No” then I would say save your money. It’s too small even for ‘short’ SL Avatars and Aeon Voom has a thing about scale. The plane is built to his scale and he refuses to sell it moddable or even with re-size scripts because such a thing in his eyes in near heresy.

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When Aeon Voom first came to SL Aviation he did it in such a way that almost bankrupted everyone who came before him. Prior to Aeon; Aviation was Military focused and those who flew had little time for new pilots. The WWII groups dominated all and phrases like ‘user friendliness’ was a figment of everyones imagination. “work it out or get the fuck out” was the motto.

The construction of Old’s AFB changed that. Aeon didn’t care about the hierarchy and traditions of SL Aviation that had come before him, he appealed to a new market, one which was seen by some builders at the time as degrading, a market of non-pilots, people who couldn’t fly and lacked the skill or patience to learn. Markets like that were reserved for the likes of LeZinc or Wilder Skies, company names which were almost Curse Words by the standards of the day. But Aeon, not giving a shit, appealed to those people. His aircraft were user friendly, easy to fly and came with a certain amount of pomp and ceremony that ,as unpractical as it was, got people excited. That is how Aeon made his fortune and the legend of Old’s AFB was cemented.

1 (1)

Today things are a little different. Aeon has acquired an attitude where he no longer wishes to appeal to the same market that built him Old’s. Instead ,like the Old self-proclaimed God’s of Aviation he de-throned, he now see’s his old customer base almost as a lower class. His newer vehicles ,from the Twin Otter onwards, feel less appealing to a new pilot and more to one who already knows what they are doing, or has the patience to learn. This is Aeon’s main issue with MCE. A common complaint from many Pilots that prefer more realistic aircraft such as ZSK or THI is that one must know the strengths of his or her Aircraft and put a great deal of effort into lining up the shot, which is unfair verses more Arcade style aircraft which simply have to turn. In principle MCE hoped to change that, by offering a separate system for those who prefer more realistic aircraft and didn’t want their dogfights getting interrupted by Arcade planes and even preventing people using Modern Military equipment ,such as stinger missiles, upon WWII Aircraft.

For Aeon however MCE became the ivory tower into which he entombed himself. Vice became a dirty word and his customer base now found their choices limited to Realistic aircraft or nothing. Despite numerous complaints Aeon wouldn’t back down, he was done with Vice and no longer had time to deal with people who couldn’t fly his new planes and seemed to take great pleasure in watching them try, fail and inevitably crash. He blamed the builders of Arcade planes for the ‘stupidity’ of today’s pilots and their unwillingness to learn; unaware that they were actually his pilots, who grew up flying his products and learned their culture of flying almost entirely from his examples.

Ironically in their confusion of suddenly having their back turned on them, they switched in their droves to the very creators Aeon blamed for their existence, who happily threw themselves at the opportunity to finally rid Aeon of his crown and flooded the community with all manner of Doomsday prophecies regarding MCE most of which were nonsense and some just plain weird. But all of them may as well have been true for the impact it had.

Aeon was now starring as the over dramatic Bond Villain in his own Saturday Night TV show and everything he did just seemed to make it worse. Even going as far as removing the “easy” mode from his helicopters, forcing people to update to the advanced version through a feature of MCE that was only designed to handle greifers[1] even though it was a civil Helicopter and should never have had the system implemented into it in the first place. Naturally his customers revolted at this decision and soon began to flood Aeon with requests, some demanding but most polite, regardless Aeon stuck to his guns and blamed Tig Spyker for creating a culture of “idiot helicopter pilots”. He then retreated from SL, suffering something close to a breakdown.

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A Google Image Search’s representation of Aeon during his Breakdown.

Upon his return the new Old’s AFB, known as The Green Hell, was launched. The region had been panned as being the Flagship sim for MCE and it’s popularity would set right everything Aeon believed he’d gotten wrong at Old’s, we were excited for it but instead what we got was an asymmetrical build with prefab tree’s and buildings stabled in all over it, giving it the impression that it had been rushed the night before. Combat with vehicles was almost impossible and Jet fighters were at the mercy of any WW2 fighter, being that they could no longer use their missiles on them.

For a man that required constant sales of his items to keep his region up and running Aeon had metaphorically shot himself in the foot. Vehicles were next to useless compared to infantry and the market for the best MCE infantry weapons and equipment was being dominated by third party vendors.

So it’s no wonder it closed down. Aeon not discouraged decided that such trivial pursuits were beneath him. He was burned out from modern and it no longer interested him, he set himself a new target, he wanted to compete with ZSK.

Now I’m just going to assume you know who Zora is and agree with his reputation of producing some of the best WWII aircraft in SL, trust me it’s easier that way. So now lets assume you know that Aeon only ever did Modern Aircraft and tanks, the few WWII projects he did during his “Golden Age”[2] were something of “throw away” projects and one offs, none which amounted to any great success, save for perhaps the Lancaster. His take-over of THI led to him neglecting it as something which belonged to a community he had little time for. Years would go by without any products being announced for THI and the last one Aeon attempted was a Stuka, two years ago, which contained little more than his basic Jet Engine script which he used in almost all of his planes, but slowed down.

Remember this thing? Mal Does, Mal never forgets.

Remember this thing? Mal Does, Mal never forgets.

Despite this drawback and despite the warnings of his closest friends and advisers Aeon choose to abandon his current market. He gave up on fixing any of the bugs in the Adventure Air products, updating anything further to MCE and forgot about his 6,000 Linden “early access” Carrier, which is still up for sale, still with the promise that it might one day be finished[3]. All for the dream of building WWII planes.

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What infuriates me about this more than anything is during my great rant regarding Dani Air-planes I took time out to bitch at our current generation of Builders were to blame for their own loss of business because they spent so much time building the products they want and not the ones their customer wanted. Out of all the builders who IM’d me in the weeks that followed, casually excusing themselves under the self-illusion that they were happy building for a niche market and clearly they were not my target, Aeon Voom gave the loudest applause and thanked me for finally “telling it like it is”.

Why then, after agreeing that builders need to appeal more to their own customers as well as the general demographic of SL Aviation rather than waste their time on ego projects that never sell, is Aeon’s first completed project ,since the day that article was published, a small vintage aircraft that I can guarantee you’d never heard of until it was announced. Why even after sales of this aircraft are so pathetic; does Aeon continue ignoring his customers, some of which had been loyal for years, in favour of appealing to a dead market just to compete with someone who wasn’t even appealing to that market.

I’ll give you the answer and some of you probably know it already, but first there is remissions to pay.

It’s been known that I’ve been working on an article about Aeon Voom for quite some time and as per fucking usual in this situation all manner of preaching wannabe fuckwits have been crawling from the woodwork, notecards in hand, desperate to “have their say” and make sure that whatever I publish was sub-edited to suit their own political agenda or revenge idea. Not how I work as most of you should know by now, so let me make a few things clear before we continue:

Firstly if you’re going to bitch that you can’t fly a helicopter anymore because the creator removed the “easy mode” it’s not because the helicopter is no longer flyable it’s because you cannot fly it. It can still be flown and I shall prove it.

Secondly “free updates for life” means updates for the life of the product, not your life. If a creator chooses to stop working on a product it is not your right to chain them to a desk and force them to make constant regular updates for eternity or your money back. If there is ever an update, you get it free, if you don’t then you have a reason to complain.

With that in mind we’re going to bitch about Aeon’s ego for a while.

It has occurred to me for various conversations that I’ve had with Aeon that he doesn’t actually know who his customer base is and regards them as something of an annoyance, save for a few exemptions. When Aeon thinks about his planes being flown he envisions epic dogfight battles flown by SL’s Fighter elites and those who aspire to be like them, he envisions professional acting Armies and Navies, well equipped and organised. What he doesn’t want to see, or largely what he doesn’t want the reputation of, is his products being used by ,if you’ll pardon the expression, noobs.

What Aeon hate seeing is one of his planes landing nose first and skittering to a halt and emerging a pilot who is a member of more sex clubs than anything else, or a navy turning up in large Duplo Block style carriers, screaming about their authority and shooting missiles at everyone. This he finds embarrassing and hates any idea that his products might be used in such a way and has began to structure his business, whether he is aware of it or not, to actively rebel against this sort of thing.

For example the F-13 and his resistance to including a re-size script is not based on any sense of realism as Aeon claims, nor on his inability to create a flight script that can work with a re-sizer but is more to do with his distaste for unrealistically proportioned avatars. The argument is more “If you don’t fit you are too tall, your problem, not the planes”. And while it’s always fun to giggle at the people who need Avatars over 10ft tall with bulging muscles and/or breasts the size of a Toyota Panda to satisfy their vanity, it doesn’t make for a good business practice and translates into poor sales. Which is exactly what happened.

The same goes with his Helicopters, quite possibly the worst decision Aeon has ever made, by removing the Easy mode[4] Aeon was quite literally telling his customers “if you’re too stupid to fly my products then you don’t fly my products” this was especially cemented when he blamed Tig Spyker for creating the “three button pilot” culture. But ultimately you must ask yourself who’s helicopters do you think sells more?

Aeon’s bizarre and often Hostile attitude towards his customers is not a new thing. When Old’s first opened and during that entire period Aeon’s attitude was that his products were always appealing to his preferred choice of customer and being that he remained mostly within his skybox and rarely ventured down below, this attitude was never challenged. Back then he was surrounded by admins, advisor and group leaders of which at least half were competent. During the early days of MCE and later towards the Green Hell we see some of Aeon’s worst decision making as well as the creation of arguably some of his worst products, during this time the central core of Aeon’s Advisers had stepped away, leaving what was described to me as “a gaggle of yesmen” what also didn’t help was Aeon’s ego at this point, believing himself now to be too big to fail and believing himself to be the best scripter in Vice Aeon stopped listening to his Beta testers and numerous products were released before they were ever finished or in jagged, buggy forms.

Today, though Aeon is finally starting to listen to his Beta Testers, his two WWII Aircraft were released unfinished with any complaints ,including ones mentioned in this blog, being brushed aside as “it’ll be fixed in the update” as of today (21st of November) the final updates and bug fixes to the flightcore of the 109 only went live two days ago despite the aircraft having been released way back in July and despite being fixed on his two aircraft that have been released since.

Aeon has complained several times that sales of these aircraft have been low, so for his benefit, let us conclude by going over the facts we have uncovered in this article.

a) The market Aeon is attempting to appeal to simply doesn’t exist. The World War Two community ,while it still “exists”, is a shadow of it’s former glory and the players are largely Vice users or non-com roleplayers, to which Uniforms, clothing and furniture take a higher priority on the shopping list.

b) The Real Market Aeon should be attempting to appeal to the same community that praises ZSK’s, the RealFlight community, those who enjoy flying more realistic planes or aircraft that have simulator start-ups or are just difficult to fly by design. They are mostly of the Civil mind and ZSK’s ,though flown, are rarely used in combat. Only being seen as legacy vintage aircraft that look great and for fill the desire for that near-realistic flight experience. No-one who flies a ZSK is going to pay an extra 500L for something that flies “almost” as good.

c) Vice is still King of the Combat Systems, while interest in combat is at one of it’s lowest ever the idea of switching to MCE is still a questionable choice. Aeon has done much to earn the reputation MCE has received but not enough to encourage confidence in it as a possible replacement for Vice. By refusing to support Vice and forcing players to “upgrade” to MCE Aeon has already told anyone still unsure about MCE to essentially “fuck off” therein giving the Anti-MCE movement another member and lowering the chance that curious players could be swayed over.

d) By implementing features that would appear designed with the aim of weeding out the noobs from being able to fly his Aircraft, Aeon has essentially knocked his market down by about two thirds, add to that his appeal to the wrong market, his anti-competitive pricing vs ZSK, his decision to make the new planes MCE only and react exceedingly hostile to anyone who asks about Vice, plus limiting that choice further down to three planes no-one really knows/cares about and who have you got left?

Aeon complained that only 50 [5] of his new Aircraft had sold. What he failed to realize that in his target demographic, the few people that he had left while ‘trimming the fat’ was the serious Aircraft collectors, the few Jeogeot Gulf MCE enthusiasts and those with a passion for WWII planes that were more enticed by the detail and accuracy of the Aircraft. That would number only around 50 people so in actuality the Planes sold quite well. So the fault was not with the Aircraft themselves, nor competition from other builders but with Aeon who had failed to realize just how small his new Demographic actually was. Diving head-first into a Niche without doing any prior research and relying almost entirely on the THI brand name, forgetting that his own negligence of the THI name as well as the decline of realistic aircraft and the rise of the penny turners between 2012 and 2014 had reduced THI from being the highly respected producer of WWII combat planes to a “Who? oh yeah I remember them” company.

e) And finally there is Aeon himself, or at least his attitude. We can’t talk about this subject without mentioning this:

limited edition_001

the now famous L$10,000 ‘limited edition’ bf-109. While Aeon laughed it off as a Joke, with all the money donated to charity, what it actually was, was a troll stab at Vice users. “If their stupid enough to use Vice, their stupid enough to pay 10k” was Aeon’s thought process and he wasn’t wrong, believe it or not this plane sold and when it became obvious that sales of this plane were not token one-offs but actually had serious interest, did Aeon take the hint that Vice wasn’t dead and that his planes would sell more if he stopped ignoring Vice?

Course not. Aeon decided instead to not give the money to charity and pocket it instead. Without telling anyone, as if I wasn’t going to find out. And I can pretty much guarantee you if 100 of these things were sold, he wouldn’t stop selling them.

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Ultimately the F-13 is good plane but serves as nothing greater than an example of everything currently wrong with Amok Dynamics, THI, Adventure Air and Aeon Voom in General. He dove headfirst into a Niche market with minimal research and a head full of hot air, he became his own worst enemy and at the time of writing I happened to know Aeon is working on four projects, three of which are WWII planes and he is attempting to steal a fourth from Joe Sparrow, proving if anything that despite lack of sales and increasing hostility, he hasn’t learned a thing.

 

 

 

[1] The MCE “lockout” feature was an emergency system designed to allow sim admins to disable cheat weapons.

[2] No-one can actually agree when the Golden Age of Aviation was they just know it’s not now. They are all wrong.

[3] Not that I’m calling Aeon a liar, I’m sure that carrier will be finished “some” day.

[4] I am fully aware that the “easy mode” was removed due to the Mono-bug, my complaint is more based around how simple it could have been for Aeon to replace it.

[5] But he told me that back in July so it’s probably a little higher now

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34 thoughts on “The F.13 and a short political rant regarding Aeon Voom

  1. A wonderful Article. As one of “Those 50”, I praise Aeon on his strive for realism and authenticity. However, also as one of “Those 50” I am forced to say that you are right. I Do wish he would revisit vice, especially on his new round of aircraft (And the upcoming aircraft).

    As an Avid Japanese Aircraft of WWII investor, and a common combatant in the Gulf, I would say that I am getting tired of having to take to the air in “Recomissioned” ZSK Products in order for me and my squadron to be competitive in the air.

    Not that I am saying ZSK is inferior, when it is not, he just does not have any Japanese Aircraft in the air as of the writing and reading of this article.

    I would think that scripting a set of the latest releases from THI to VICE would be worth buying (but not at the 10k price of course), if only to be able to go up and fight the scenarios that seem to be becoming popular once more in the Gulf.

    Like

  2. Tank Kwaszes says:

    To be fair the JU-52 is not a Voom script, as of recently THI scripting has been split on projects between Aeon and myself. Though a majority of the recent releases are AMOK scripts rather than Laminar.

    Liked by 1 person

  3. Wow. I always knew you were kind of a hypocrite Mal, but this takes it to a whole new level. Also I never thought I’d ever find myself defending Aeon Voom under any circumstances but here we go.

    As far as the F-13, you complain about it losing altitude when you bank it. Here’s a little heads up and I’m sure you can verify it with Tank, RL aircraft do that. In fact aircraft you’ve sang the praises off in the past like that Piper Tomahawk do it. The Super Cub does it. Pretty much any aircraft with some realistic physics are going to do that. The reason doesn’t take a lot of thought. When you bank, part of the lifting force of the wing (or rotor in a helicopter) is now being directed horizontally. You have to correct for that if you want to maintain altitude.

    Secondly. Many aircraft are scaled for RL sized people including several you’ve also supported. In this I agree, if you’re using a 7’7″ AV, it’s your problem if you don’t fit. You wouldn’t fit in many vehicles in SL in an AV that tall.

    The F-13 is actually a very good beginner aircraft. It flies relatively slowly and doesn’t have a lot of bells and whistles. Did I get one? No. I don’t need another vintage plane that size and if I were going to, there are a few from other makers that are a lot more interesting to me.

    The part you wrote about how he came in to the SL Aviation market and didn’t seek the approval of the old guard before creating and selling his aircraft had me chuckling because you could substitute Dani for Aeon and pretty much cover the reason I think you and some of your buddies have so much issue with him. He didn’t choose to let the established group of sellers dictate what he did and he became wildly successful without any input, guidance, or kissing any of your asses and you all couldn’t handle it and came up with an excuse to try to attack him because the truth would have made you all look exactly like the maladjusted bullies you are. It didn’t work with him any more than it did with Shana. She pretty much ignored you just like Dani and gained her following. You had a partial success with Niki who didn’t deserve what you all did to her. The attitude you described in the early combat plane creators and community is exactly why that community is pretty much a rotting corpse now. People don’t like jerks. You aren’t much friendlier to others who appear on the scene and start finding success either, but none of them have become quite as popular. Fortunately, they have Dani and Shana to look at and realize they don’t need your approval to create their aircraft and sell them. It’s too bad Aeon forgot his roots and joined your ranks.

    And that about ends the defending him part. He’s arrogant and egotistical to a fault. He doesn’t give a rats ass about his customers. When LL ‘improved’ something and the Twin Otter started going into taxi mode randomly below a certain speed, his solution was ‘don’t fly that slow’ For over 6 months a plane I really enjoyed and had once used to fly others in was pretty much unusable. Then it turned out it wasn’t that tough to fix and we were all supposed to praise him for making it possible to fly his aircraft again. His enforced updates with the previous versions being disabled is an asshole move and one he deserves all the shit he’s gotten over it. That said I never had an issue with basic mode going awayin his helicopters. I like advanced keyboard mode. It’s a lot more fun flying his in that mode than Tig’s boring set it and forget it copters. Nailing a perfect autorotation landing is just a blast.

    Finally, the Vice vs MCE thing. If he weren’t such an arrogant, inflexible ass, MCE could really have taken off. I’ve read it’s capabilities and it is far and away better than VICE provided it ever had actually gotten released for others to use without Aeon playing grand high overlord over who got to use it. Most of the other makers simply decided they didn’t want to have to answer to him for the privilege of using it and it went nowhere. It could still gain some life if Aeon manages to get it working without the need of rez zones. But even then it’ll still need an api that anyone can use for their planes. I hope that doesn’t happen though because as things stand, you combat aviators all have to stay over in Jeogeot or on private sims to do your air battles and considering what a bunch of self important chavs a lot of you are, the rest of us appreciate not having to deal with you.

    Like

    • Starbuckk Serapis says:

      No creator that forcefully disables prior versions will EVER get a single linden from me.Once I buy it, its mine. That kind of conduct should be AR-worthy.

      Like

      • MeganAnn Mills says:

        Even though I never owned one, the process of disabling scripts to force updates on items you OWN without disclosure prior to purchase is technically illegal and probably against TOS. When you sell something in SL, you transfer ownership. The customer owns the scripts, the version, everything about it. If your update process reaches into my property and deletes or disables anything without disclosure before I buy it, that is destruction of my property, pure and simple.

        Anyone who buys anything that uses an API for some part of its function has to realize that some day the off-world portion of that item’s usability is at risk. Or that the API may compromise their RL privacy. But completely disabling the property IN world is unacceptable. In that case, you don’t actually own it, you’re just leasing it at the pleasure of whoever controls the update. They can, in fact, update it with something that has NO usability at all, or is a huge mesh penis that sings Disney songs.

        That kind of change of reasonable expectation in purchasing in SL requires disclosure before purchase, so the customer has the choice whether they want to pay to “lease” that item, or buy something else. NO one who complained to me about it when it became an issue said they had disclosure of this, and I asked them.

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        • Funny all the Vice fixed wing aircraft I own still work and I can Hop in Any AMOK heli with a current engine Fly it and even get it to hover while in mouse look mode.

          There is no vice Kill switch in AMOK products. some products which are no longer supported broke when LL fucked with LSL and broke them.

          Go to Lockeed and DEMAND that 100% of they’re staff stop working on what they are doing and do warrant work on a Jetstar you Found In a bone yard.

          FYI vice is A piece of utter crap Why waist energy maintaining a system that’s for griefers and cheaters at this point its So broken after what 7 years of Utter neglect by the creator?

          BTW penny turning shannashit pretendpilots have no valid argument Shana can’t script I have never seen a shannashit plane fly and Been impressed Its allways UFO like To say you Enjoy ARCADY BS you wanna look like a bad ass that you arnb’t want arcade Aircraft buy war bug planes which are what your trying to make vice into and why more creators then just aeon want vice to die.

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          • MeganAnn Mills says:

            LOL I can add nothing to that, it’s perfect elitist crap just as it is. Everyone go back and read it carefully. If you don’t see”what’s wrong with that picture”, then have another glass of Koolaid, and go back to your game.

            Theft of property is theft or property. Edit on the plane, go to contents and see who OWNS the freaking scripts. Did you give permission to have them deleted or disabled? No? Damaged property.

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          • Starbuckk Serapis says:

            It is my understanding that when you accept an updated version of Aeon’s planes, the old one no longer works. If you rez it, when it does its update check, if it finds you’ve accepted an updated version, the older version no longer works. And the second point of this is that in newer versions, Aeon removed Vice from the system, so if you bought that plane, you are, once having accepted the update, blocked from using the older one that still has the features you expected it to have.

            If he chooses to remove vice from newer versions, that is absolutely within his rights. What is NOT within his rights is disabling the older version. At that point it is a bait and switch.

            If this is untrue, I’d love to hear some confirmation, from Aeon. Though it is probably moot. I rarely buy no-modify craft anyway, but that is a discussion for another time.

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            • MeganAnn Mills says:

              I didn’t experience it personally, and could be wrong, but as I was told the old one was disabled whether you accepted the update or not.

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            • Tank Kwaszes says:

              To my understanding (now i’ve not personally checked on this to verify it) the old vice planes do work, it’s just post mce update that has the disabler in it.

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              • MeganAnn Mills says:

                It’s never occurred to me to check for a method of damaging customer’s property with Hippo or Casper update, but it’s possible the option wasn’t available to them until use of the MCE API. Could be it wasn’t possible or they didn’t think of it with the older ones.

                Like

              • Starbuckk Serapis says:

                Must be some FUD being spread, but hey what goes around comes around.

                Like

              • MeganAnn Mills says:

                I find it ironic that some of those SO concerned about property rights in uploading mesh to SL, are utterly oblivious to those of their customers. It seems morals change according to who benefits.

                Like

                • Tank Kwaszes says:

                  I’m just stating that i believe the old vice versions should still be operable (ll induced glitches aside that is) to my understanding. far as the morality of the “kill script” in the system goes, i stay largely out of that argument outside of repeating one side or anotehr’s thoughts. I can see where both sides of the argument come from. I will how ever say this, i definitely wouldn’t consider it an ideal solution.

                  Like

              • MeganAnn Mills says:

                Perhaps you can explain how damaging customers’ property without consent or disclosure prior to purchase is a valid side to come from? I have yet to hear it at all.

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    • Crim, Reading your reply to this just makes me realize something. You don’t hate anyone but Mal. It seems to me that you are not about Giving your thoughts, but attempting to be like “I AM THE WHITE KNIGHT THAT WILL PROTECT EVERYONE AGAINST THE EVIL THAT IS MAL! I DONT CARE WHO HE TALKS SHIT ABOUT! AS LONG AS I CAN SAY HE IS WRONG!”

      Some people are contrary for decent reasons, but you are being contrary just to be contrary.

      I love it when you post, because then I can just be like “oh look, the rabbit is trying to troll, just like he does when he comes to the airfields to try and show he is right!”

      Like

      • I don’t hate Mal. I don’t agree with a fair amount that Mal says. Calling me contrary just to be contrary on Mal’s rant blog is pretty hilarious. I’ve agreed with Mal on occasion including certain parts of what he said here, but when he, or you, or Karl or Tank start spewing BS, I call it BS and not something pleasant and fresh smelling. I don’t really care that much what you say because you’re pretty much just a yes man and crony going along with the party line of those you think are cool in the hopes that doing so will make you seem cool too. It doesn’t. It just makes you look like an asskisser and brown noser who brings nothing original to the table. I don’t particularly like Mal or Tank or Aeon, but at least they have original thoughts. You haven’t demonstrated that ability so far as I’ve seen. Even here you are just attacking me rather than addressing anything I actually said and providing a different point of view. If/when you can manage that, what you say might be worth addressing.

        Like

        • Well, I would address something if your views meant anything other than to just attack.

          You call me a Yes man, when I have fought many times with Aeon, Tank, and others over the flight characteristics of aircraft, Vice, MCE, etc.

          All I have ever seen you do outside of this blog where you take pot shots, however, is show up one day to Wright and toss a link out, saying that because of this article you shared, it meant that Dani planes were ok according to Linden Labs.

          If anyone is a Yes Man, and a lackey, your actions have proved that it is you.

          Like

      • Jami Price says:

        What Crim said hits the nail on the head about Niki Wilder and Shana Carpool being the punching bag for a select few who wish that they were the ones who are in charge of the Second Life Aviation Community.
        The actions of a select few are causing arguments and causing people to choose sides.
        What kind of fun is that? unless you are a troll with a power trip who likes to cause strife among the community.
        Stop all the fighting and have fun.All of this arguing and backstabbing is not only getting old, but harming the community in general.

        I am always amused by people who are quick to play the troll card when someone is not marching in step with everyone else in line.

        People should let their own need and desire determine which airplane that they buy. Not a choice made by peer pressure from a select few people on a power trip.

        Like

    • Aeon had two choices with the F.13 – include a resize script or make several sizes of aircraft. The former choice causes lag in sims which are already subject to it, the latter is probably a pain in the neck for a designer, and understandably deprecated. (I know you can include a REMOVABLE resize script, to be deleted after you’ve made your aircraft the size you like it – but who really deletes resize scripts?)

      While I PREFER to live my SL in normally proportioned (from 5’7″ to 5’11”, normal RL female sizes) shapes, I have a third shape with roughly the same numbers which is 6’6″ and capitulates to those SL designers who won’t make gear or clothing for normally proportioned shapes.

      I ordinarily have to play with controls in newly-bought aircraft to get them where I don’t look like I’m joyriding in Mom’s plane (like “Penny” in the old Sky King TV series – which I miss for homey touches like the nerdy little boy in the series mixing explosives up in test tubes while in the same plane Sky King was chasing bad guys, to drop ON said bad guys – ah, good times… ). So I appreciate an aircraft – or anything else – made for RL-normally proportioned avatars.

      But I realize that designers must consider they’re competing with folks who don’t care what height their customers are, as long as they fork over the lindens, so I see both sides of this issue. Given a choice, I buy and fly aircraft that fit my “normal” shapes, but I’d bend that rule if someone produced, say, a B-58 made for Amazons.

      Like

  4. Jody Genesis says:

    “Firstly if you’re going to bitch that you can’t fly a helicopter anymore because the creator removed the “easy mode” it’s not because the helicopter is no longer flyable it’s because you cannot fly it. It can still be flown and I shall prove it.”
    You are missing the point here Mal. Nobody said that the helicopters were no longer flyable. The problem is that if I test fly a product before I buy it, I expect it to fly like it did when I test flew it. When the person who sold it to me uses an “update” script that deletes the flight scripts from the version I purchased rendering it useless and the updated version is scripted with fundamentally different flight controls and characteristics there is a problem. I could fly the helicopter with the “advanced” flight script if I chose to do so, but I do not.

    “Secondly “free updates for life” means updates for the life of the product, not your life. If a creator chooses to stop working on a product it is not your right to chain them to a desk and force them to make constant regular updates for eternity or your money back. If there is ever an update, you get it free, if you don’t then you have a reason to complain.”
    You miss the point here also. As you have stated, VICE is not dead. Aeon chose to remove the VICE versions of his products in order to force MCE down VICE users throats. The products are still “alive” and functional. People use them every day. All he needed to do was to move the VICE scripts into the new mesh models, but he chose not to do so betraying all of us who have given him so much of our hard earned money over the years. Aeon states that he cannot in good conscience support VICE any more. He still sells all his items that are not yet updated to MCE as VICE versions in his vendors. Also he released the 10000 Linden BF-109 as you stated.

    Like

    • Cept Vice is Dead There’s no support for it and the creator has literally killed off his SL avatar and will never come back.

      And Vice flat out is not fun Theres some entertainmemt With THI/ZSK/AT VS a THI/ZSK/AT aircraft But it really Gets BORING when Lighting up a Shannashit Catalina for 4 sims from 19m away from the pilot and not a single bullet registered do to how poorly made some of her stuff is.

      whats really fun is being out turn out claimed BY A PBY when your Flying KI-27.

      also they’re are huge swaths who refuse to try MCE cause there are no Penny turning Gravity defying UFO planes like a PBY which can damned dogfight P40s KI-27s.

      Like

      • MeganAnn Mills says:

        Silly boy, I don’t even do combat anymore and I know a lot of people still use vice. The amount anyone doesn’t care what any one other person finds boring can be measured in Parsecs.

        Stating subjective value judgment as universal fact is exactly the problem. of arrogance in the community that has forced a social schism. I know, I was there at the beginning. Even if people can’t define it, they can smell it, and seek fresh air,

        What this leaves is a small number of bitter circle-jerkers spinning around faster than Shana’s planes. A tad incestuous, ain’t it? Respect other people’s choices and throw a little chlorine in the gene pool, it’ll go a long way.

        Like

      • That must be why, when I talk to people about setting up bombing ranges and other aids to gracious living, VICE always comes up, and why the warbirds, weapons, mission expendables, warships and AFVs I buy all support VICE and one or two other options. Sure, VICE is dead.

        Like

        • Starbuckk Serapis says:

          VICE is to SL combat systems what COBOL is to software development…something that may never die but really needs to. It is simply too entrenched for most creators to let go of, and no one wants to write an effective replacement and make it widely available and open enough for all creators to use without paying an arm and a leg for it.

          More current lsl features offer better solutions that could be used to replace both VICE and TCS (and CCC for anyone still using that ancient technology). But the time involved is just more than today’s creator wants to spend as long as they still CAN use VICE

          An effective system needs the following:

          1. It should be open source.
          2. It should be non-physical so it can be used where there are no rezzing rights.
          3. It should stop when it hits a solid object or avatar.
          4. It should be either free for creators to incorporate or very low cost.
          5. It should be usable by and effective on avatars, vehicles and capital ships.

          Without the above items, VICE will be with us for a long time. And items 1 and 4 are why no one is likely to build it.

          Like

          • MeganAnn Mills says:

            2 and 3 would put it squarely in the land of Ray Casting, as non-phys sensors can read through avs and prims. Nix Stransky and I briefly looked at ray casting when it came out, but region maximum limit of the number of casts accepted before being throttled made it seem impractical. Where it would momentarily stop accepting casts would be unpredictable, and no doubt result in people hitting each other over the head with frying pans while devolving into a school yard arguments of who ran up against the throttle fence.

            Like

            • Tank Kwaszes says:

              Wow, now there is a name I’ve not heard in ages. And another block to combat systems is people who just want to fight against change. We saw something similar when VICE began to replace TCS on a large scale (and I find it ironic that many of the now VICE groupies wanted to destroy it in favor of TCS back in the day). Truth is people are opposed to anything that changes their status quo and that’s especially true when you involve various hacks that have come out over the years (some malicious others not). To suggest you might replace VICE is to stoke the flames from the opposition about how you are only seeking to destroy. control, etc. etc. In truth we need to dig a lot of people out of their trenches before we can bother with the energy and headache of developing a combat system. I think meg will agree when i say it’s a monumental task to make something both comprehensive and secure and giving it away means you really only ever see minimal return for your effort and then take on the monumental headache of maintaining it to keep it viable. I think that really is MCE’s biggest issue is that it was attempting to be too safe. To answer an above question and to provide an example the controversial “kill switch” in the root code. The idea of such an item is simple, keep the bad and broken copies from being able to be used to gain an unfair advantage and ruining the game. While I’ll agree it’s not an ideal solution it is one that was tried, personally I would leave it to the sim managers/admins to police but then you have to dedicate people on the ground so to speak to simply watching everyone else play. In the end the combat system issue is a political one rather than a piratical one and the burden to be born by those who create a system is not worth the associated headache that would be sure to follow. If we want a new system or progress at all we as a community need to step back and accept that somewhere someone has a different idea on how things should be done and they aren’t necessarily wrong, just different in opinion. If you don’t like a system don’t buy into it, but to instantly scream against it will only stifle anyone seeking to try and move on. To be perfectly blunt and honest I never really saw MCE as a real replacement for VICE but rather the system that would break the VICE strangle hold enough to make wiggle room for a new system to rise in place. Sadly it seems that has yet to happen and the combat community (if you could even call it such anymore) has stagnated and fallen apart.

              Like

  5. Drake Geraln says:

    Here’s a novel idea. Why doesn’t everyone buy and fly the planes they enjoy flying and leave others to do the same? I mean that would be the mature thing to do

    Liked by 1 person

  6. […] the dinosaur that was Vice, Aeon Voom was not the man to do it.You can read all the reasons why here where I believed that the F.13 was just the epitome of everything Aeon had done to destroy his […]

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  7. […] exposition, I’ve only reviewed one of Joe’s products and I gave it a bad review. Aeon I tore to shit  and I’ve given more promotion to Drusillia Saunders than I ever have […]

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