So then this happened….

So I said I would be taking a little break in December, I had my own commitments as I’m sure most of you also did. Thankfully December in Second Life is quiet. Tis the season of peace and forgiveness and thus people don’t usually go out of their way to shank someone this time of year so it was the perfect time for me to get some rest and catch up on my neglect of reality.

Of course as we both know the Universe doesn’t work like that so immediately after Christmas, and I do mean Immediately (the 26th of December), I got a skype message informing me that Tig Spijkers, supreme overlord of the SL Aviation group, had asked all Dani pilots to leave, politely, then not so politely.

[2015/12/26 13:29] Tig Spijkers: Dani released another download
[2015/12/26 13:29] Tig Spijkers: puke
[2015/12/26 13:29] Tig Spijkers: 😉
[2015/12/26 13:29] Tig Spijkers: and aviation is doing well
[2015/12/26 13:29] Tom ‘Quagmire’ Box (thomm.box): i refuse to puke, cause i just had home made pizza!
[2015/12/26 13:30] Tig Spijkers: that is good Tom
[2015/12/26 13:30] Elyann Hinterland: why i always try to make a ship out of my plane *sighs*
[2015/12/26 13:31] Tom ‘Quagmire’ Box (thomm.box): but hey, it has a sex bed
[2015/12/26 13:31] Tom ‘Quagmire’ Box (thomm.box): for joining the pixel mile high club
[2015/12/26 13:31] Tig Spijkers: now my question is how would it be possible for me to convince those that support Dani to leave this group?
[2015/12/26 13:31] DILY (dilynrae.vandyke): I’m the kind of person who doesn’t care who makes it… I buy the plane for what it is and how much it interests me…
[2015/12/26 13:31] Tom ‘Quagmire’ Box (thomm.box): you should care.
[2015/12/26 13:31] Tig Spijkers: Can they please just leave?

Now as a working professional I am more interested in the Ship Plane Elyann is trying to build since I wanted to kick off the New Year with something more upbeat but now we have to talk about this.

[2015/12/26 13:32] Tig Spijkers: You stupidity makes me … <add you own worde here>
[2015/12/26 13:33] Tig Spijkers: but what a wonderful place this would be without the drool all over the floor
[2015/12/26 13:33] Tig Spijkers: Leave the group
[2015/12/26 13:33] Tig Spijkers: I really mean it
[2015/12/26 13:34] Tig Spijkers: don’t bother to switch off the light, we will have those one for many years to come, I promise you this

[2015/12/26 13:38] Tig Spijkers: I have a hard time to say everyone is welcome when their stupidity makes me puke

Now this poses a problem. For one the SL Aviation group is not the physical embodiment of the Aviation Community but it does represent, or at least it’s supposed to represent, neutral ground where discussions are brought to the table and different ideologies clash. Now we’re always going to have a small percentage of people who don’t like having their opinions challenged, who label the group as “drama filled” and march off claiming they were banned but for the larger part the idea of open debate works.

Stick with me on this one we’ll get back to ‘what Tig done did’ in a second.

The SL Aviation community is one of SL’s largest and most diverse communities that exists within SL. Without getting into “communities” that centre on vague ideals like ‘fashion’. Unlike most communities who have two or three Land Barons who pay for a Sim, claim the title “community leader” and dictate what members of that community can and cannot do we instead have several vast, open regions, controlled by no single entity or person that we can utilise to our advantage. Build airports and set-up flight routes. Yes it’s not always going to be smooth sailing, we’re always going to have to deal with ban parcels, land orbs and the occasional dickhead Airport owner but better that than one person in control of the entire community dictating rules, banning people for visiting rival airports and dictating who’s products can and cannot be used, promoting their freinds to Admin positions and quietly banning anyone who disagrees with them.

Those type of people do still exist within our community. I spent a long time talking about Princess Da Admiral, the failed former dictator of a group called Dog’s on the Run who no longer exist within SL. He called himself a community leader and for what it’s worth did run a successful community but consistently tried to weaponise that community against people he didn’t like.

He did this because he could not ban people from Aviation. He couldn’t stop his rivals creating Airports and his own people from visiting them or talking to other people outwith DOR and learning alternate view points or things Princess Da didn’t want them to know. Worst of all despite being an admin in the group for quite some time he could not control the SL Aviation group. He couldn’t control what was being said, what peoples opinions were and who was allowed into the group and who wasn’t.

Essentially the typical methods of control available to other communities are not available to us and so those who seek to control the Aviation Community, like Da Admiral, ultimately fail.

Those who are a little more intelligent have moved onto a different approach, the ideology of miss-information, rumour control and Propaganda.

You see, when it comes to news there are very very few news sources, if any at all, that exist within SL. Most SL “newspapers” exist as corporate backslappers, “pay us money and we’ll promote your region” sort of thing. If you read the SL Newser or Express you’ll find hundreds upon thousands of Articles where the “journalist” visits a region and talks about how nice it is.

As a result people tend to get their news from hearsay. Rumours and anecdotes told by their friends who in turn got them from one of the two sides to the story, meaning everything they hear is biased in someone’s favour. Into that mix stands the “Community Leaders” the ones who wish to dictate and control the SL Aviation Community, inserting themselves into the great SL Chinese whispers game and removing or adding details to change the story as they see fit or simply making stuff up and then telling the story to make it sound more real.

Because people rarely ever check facts, the backgrounds of those telling the “facts” or do check facts but do it by asking their friends who probably don’t know any better. A version of events that has just been made-up by someone can often always spread faster and become the accepted “truth” long before anyone has any real idea of what is going on. Add to that the simplicity of Human nature that people would rather aggressively defend what they’ve been told as truth to the point of madness than admit they are wrong. Hence ‘Drama’,

This is where Open Debate comes in and why the SL Aviation group is so important.

With Open Debate as the first side of the story spreads through one part of the community, the alternate point of view is spreading through the second half. Both will hit the middle in the Group Chat where the debate begins. third or fourth alternate viewpoints may spring up as well as the people actually involved, who get to have their say in-front of an audience and eventually, though it takes a long time, some glimmer of truth is finally produced and we start to get a clearer understand of what happened.

this

Of course we’re always going to get people who don’t like their opinion to be challenged, as I said earlier and this is why we have so many splinter groups from the SL Aviation Group and people who refuse to be a member of it or claim it’s “full of Drama”. This is the “stick your fingers in your ears and shout la la la I can’t hear you” side of the community who ironically view everybody else as Stupid.

We had a discussion in SL Aviation about this a few days ago and this echo’s back to ‘what Tig done did’ and that is are we entitled to talk about people when they are not there to defend themselves? Certainly we cannot take the moral high-ground in the situation but it shouldn’t be said we cannot have the discussion. There is nothing physically stating you can’t bitch about someone, or even just politely discuss someone without them personally being there to witness it. Such a rule would be impossible to enforce and would give woman way too much free time. Besides I doubt everyone who reads this can really say they have only spoken about me to others while I have been present.

Alternately what happens if someone purposely removes themselves from the Discussion? In this case Annitah Babii of AEB&W. The discussion was what exactly AEB&W stands for, her fans were too busy bitching that we couldn’t have the discussion because Annitah Babii was not around to express her opinion personally. But Annitah Babii was a member of the group but dramatically left because she didn’t like hearing criticism of her products. That was her choice to do that, she wasn’t driven away nor was she forced to leave. It doesn’t mean that she is now granted immunity to criticism or discussion through Open Debate.

However ‘what Tig done did’ was to aggressively ‘muscle’ Dani fans out of the group. Or so we are made to believe. Tig’s words are not for those who buy Dani’s products nor Dani’s fans, and I spoke to Tig to confirm this. Her words are for the so called Dani Cultists. These are people who aggressively defend Dani from any and all types of criticism and consistently scream that there is no evidence to support the idea that Dani’s products are copybotted while at all times pointing the finger of blame to anyone else caught copybotting in an effort to justify that copybotting is perfectly ok.

These people have already excluded themselves from the SL Aviation group and have formed their own groups, where they ban anyone who disagrees with their opinion and then congratulate each other on being part of the “freedom of speech” movement in SL Aviation without the slightest hint of irony. Those who remain in the SL Aviation group are largely trolls using alternate account who throw a temper tantrum any time Dani is mentioned or someone like me, Tig, Tank, Karl or anyone else on the “Anti-Dani Team” says anything. Anything at all.

Tig is now exhausted with the constant debate, constant trolling attempts by the cultists and has now demanded that the year long debate be finally put to rest. I would argue that perhaps this issue needs more discussion, a proper discussion not a shit slinging dick waving contest as per normal. But wherever that happens it wont be in the SL Aviation group, nor it’s “free speech” satellite groups and splinter factions.

Once again the ideology of  “How dare you disagree with me!” rears it’s ugly head. Once again the fastest growing Community in Second Life cannot be trusted to handle matters in an adult manner and topics of debate become censored, something I am not all too keen on as most of you should know by now.

I aim to do something to help this little issue, more details will be available later in the year. In the meantime we have our own discussion to make. Is Tig correct to ban this topic of conversation and ask the Dani Cultists to leave the group? is what they do a form of greifing? or is this a blatant form of Censorship?

What am I asking you for?

 

Also happy New Year.

NuclearXmas-www-scarfolk-blogspot-com

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27 thoughts on “So then this happened….

  1. Robert McNay says:

    Its going to be hard to “put it to rest” since its not restricted to the chat group.
    There are people like me who don’t give a flying fig about the in-fighting and just want to fly cool planes. But because of words said on the SL Aviation forum, its becoming more a childish game of “I won’t let anyone with a plane built by X to land at my airport.”
    That sort of actions don’t affect just anyone’s “acolytes”, but also those who have no idea or desire to be involved. And even dragging them into the “drama”.
    SL has been taking over sims that were going under they felt were landmarks important to SL (i.e. SS Galaxy, etc). Maybe they need to start doing the same with general groups that are supposed to be promoting a general activity important to SL.

    Like

  2. Capt. Rebecca S. Rathbone says:

    Well said.
    Also the Dani cultists have been on a tear through the Aviation community as a whole, not only in group chats, but in person by disrupting the operation of airports, blocking shops (which for a protest does no good because of the Marketplace) with lag inducing aircraft, and even outright griefing.

    But it’s more insidious than that, it’s also the harassment of users. Tig was harassed by Dani cultists during a pretty sensitive time, and for her to have taken this long with the decision tells me this wasn’t a easy decision to make.

    But what you are dealing with here is something similar to the SJW plague. It’s something where victory isn’t assured and the best you can hope for is a stalemate. Dani wouldn’t have the opinion they have allowed to be created if they just would A: Admit their wrongdoing, B: Denounce what certain people have been doing in their name, and C: Apologize to creators that have been harassed DIRECTLY by this group of terrorists.

    There is no getting around this now. Dani is a cancer and either chemo has to be applied to put it under control (what Tig has done) or outright cut it out (which the community will do soon.)

    To be honest… Tig took too long, but then again you should make sure the guilty party is actually guilty before you sentence them.

    Like

    • MeganAnn Mills says:

      I haven’t seen any Dani supporters disrupting anything at SLHA, but I have seen anti-Dani signs popping up.

      Let’s not forget here that nothing more than personal opinion bashing was going on before certain builders who operate sims put out a gadget that gets the creator of objects entering the sim and bans any created by Dani. Without warning or notice, this unseats people and returns their aircraft in areas that otherwise have free access for all, for nothing other than purchasing a Dani plane.

      What the hell did any of these people think the social response would be to this? Did no one learn ANYTHING from the airplane banning wars at combat sims? And what justification for it? Impotence to get LL to act against Dani in spite of multiple attempts? Moral outrage of a crime not even committed against them personally?

      What it does is immediately throw people over to the opposite side of the argument by an action that they view as patently unfair, a personal attack against them, and a symbol that whatever your moral justification might be is cancelled out by radical action against innocent parties in the context of SL.

      Pardon the lack of sympathy here, but that nonsense was arranged by people who have enough experience in SL to know better, and who are builders themselves. You can rationalize this a dozen different ways, but it comes down to human nature witnessed over and over again in SL. Those who had seen the animosity banning planes produces have no excuse whatsoever for not being able to predict the outcome of this.

      I have listened to a LOT of complaints by people who come back to SLHA after being thrown out of their Dani plane at these places, and so far not a SINGLE one has said “yeah, ok I can see why they do that”. Up to 8 years in SL(maybe more), most of that time running groups, running sims, and selling builds to customers, and these people don’t know any better than this? Unbelievable!

      Like

  3. I don’t know enough to decide what Dani is or is not doing, but I have seen a lot of mythmaking about copybotting ever the years, and some infamous rip-offs associated with anti-copybot tools.

    It doesn’t help that some people have sold meshes to multiple creators (and quite legitimately), and other people see mesh similarity as evidence of theft.

    Lobachevsky applies.

    So does Many Rice Davies.

    Like

    • Blackhawk Hird says:

      I have a hard time deciding whether or not the claims about certain builders being involved with content theft are true or not.

      I am not an expert on the properties of mesh builds. So I myself have no way of knowing if the howling masses are right or if this is just another attempt to bully another content creator off the grid.

      Since my earliest days of flying within Second Life there have been two common problems plaguing the aviation community.

      Lag and people attempting to sabotage other builders using bullying techniques.

      Typically making bad remarks about the builder to justify banning that person’s products from their region.

      I have not been involved with Second Life for a couple of years and what do I hear soon after I rejoined the aviation community?

      I hear the same group of people bullying another content creator as if I tuned into a new season of a Cable TV reality show.

      Nothing has changed since I was away from Second Life other than the person being bullied.

      With these people’s past actions in mind, I do not consider any of the arguments or views by this group of people to have any validity.

      Like

  4. Blacktip Razor says:

    Always enjoy Mal’s Blog.

    On one hand, he castigates established SL builders for not building airplanes SL aviation buyers WANT…and that was per Dani planes.

    On the other hand, this blog post is because he is apparently questioning that SL Aviation as a *Group* can ask Members to take this Never Ending Nonsense Elsewhere.

    If I am wrong Mal, feel free to reply.

    Perhaps Mal can post a link back to his article on that so I don’t have to.

    Now, it is because of SL Aviation, and if you REALLY READ closely, Mal makes the argument he wants to make.

    Mal writes:

    “Tig is now exhausted with the constant debate, constant trolling attempts by the cultists and has now demanded that the year long debate be finally put to rest. I would argue that perhaps this issue needs more discussion, a proper discussion not a shit slinging dick waving contest as per normal. But wherever that happens it wont be in the SL Aviation group, nor it’s “free speech” satellite groups and splinter factions.”

    What is YOUR suggestion Mal?

    I thought so…in reality..nothing.

    Like

    • malcious says:

      You’re right, so what’s your suggestion?

      Like

      • Blacktip Razor says:

        “malcious says:
        January 5, 2016 at 2:26 pm
        You’re right, so what’s your suggestion?”

        For starters, start a GROUP that allows your Freedom of Speech…and…chuckles…I don’t think that will last very long.

        You shoot your mouth off about SL Aviation; back it up.

        My SUGGESTION is this:

        It is EASY to be a CRITIC, and write cunningly, funny smart ass articles that you…in reality…can run from. Let’s see YOU run a Group.

        Like

        • malcious says:

          Ah of course, because I don’t personally run a group that as big as the SL Aviation Group I shouldn’t be allowed to criticize it.
          Under the same logic YOU don’t run a blog that’s even a 10th as viewed as mine so you cannot criticize what I do.
          Of course if you think what I do is easy then WordPress is free, by all means show me how easy it is.

          Liked by 1 person

  5. Starbuckk Serapis says:

    Having been a direct witness to the post Christmas debacle, I found the real sad part of this was the timing. It was not timed by the release of Dani’s 737, which was a few days previous, but ironically on the day that Carly released her Porter airplane. On a day when Carly should have been the star of the day, the spotlight in what should be the premiere group of aviation in SL was stolen by the Dani debate. It was frankly shameful.

    If TIg’s goal had been to shut down the debate, I’d have stood with her. But the reality is, this was not the goal. You cannot stop a debate by silencing one side and allowing the other to continue to rant. To coin the words of an infamous Tom Clancy novel, “If you are going to kick a tiger in the ass, you’d better have a plan for dealing with his teeth”. Tig’s mistake was to only try to silence one side. When the Dani supporters spoke up, she attacked. When the anti-Dani crowd spoke up she was at best silent, and at worst supportive. And with one of those participants also being a group moderator, and her being a group owner, it became clear quickly that SL Aviation can not claim to be, as you referred to above, “neutral ground where discussions are brought to the table and different ideologies clash”. When MODERATORS speak up, they set the tone for the group. So once the desire of the moderator is to end the debate, they need to stop taking sides and end both sides of the discussion. That is what moderators do.

    What I noticed most about the discussion of the day was that numerous people tried in vain to redirect the discussion to more pleasant topics, including the PC-6. Each time, however, those determined to have their “voice” heard, on BOTH sides of the issue, would pipe in. And I am sorry to say but it was not just the “dani cultists” doing it. It just seemed like there was a stage for their complaints generated by something that should have been a positive event in the community, and weren’t going to waste an opportunity to ruin the day.

    The Dani debate is definitely a cancer, but here is a reality check: the problem will not go away until/unless the owners of the alleged violated copyrights speak up. Linden Labs is not going to react unless they get a DMCA take down order. So ruining what should be a prominent group by letting this cancer metastasize is not going to help.

    For the record, I am not a “Dani Supporter” and for my own reasons will not be purchasing any more Dani planes. It mystifies me though that all of the “stolen mesh” attacks are focused on Dani when there are others in the aviation community accused of the same thing. Yet to know who they are I’d have to go to Honah Lee and look at Aeon’s notecard. It is tantamount to the attacks on Wal-Mart for doing the same things that pretty much every other retailer in the country does, because Wal-Mart happens to be more successful at it than the others.

    Further, have a great deal of respect for Tig as she is a great builder that has a strong respect for her customers and their needs which goes back many years.

    Like

    • Well said. I actually had a question about the Porter and almost missed the answer because it was buried in the ridiculous ranting on both sides of the issue. It doesn’t help that the group is is firmly stacked against Dani There’s not one mod who isn’t rabidly against Dani and his aircraft. There’s not one mod who’s interested in general aviation or passenger flying. Even aircraft released by those other than Dani get short shrift if they aren’t one of the Jeogeot cadre. And then they wonder why they aren’t respected by the largest percentage of the aviation community. Actually it’s not and never really has been a cohesive community. It’s always been the combat fliers thinking they were in some way superior and the casual general aviation fliers and more recently the airlines. The latter two have grown significantly while for former has shrunk in everything other than the egos of those involved.

      As far as I’m concerned, the SL Aviation group as it is currently being run is the cancer in what there is of an aviation community, not Dani and his aircraft.

      Like

      • “There’s not one mod who’s interested in general aviation” incorrect My interest is in General aviation and flying small GA planes between small airfields. The fact is Dog fighting in S.L. is something I could never do because at my age I can’t keep up with it. So yes you have a mod who is not a “combat elitist” I am part of the “Fly for fun group” and no I have no interest in flying passengers other than friends and, I am not a role player. I have GA planes, I have Commercial planes, I have airplanes made to do work, I have military planes if it catches my eye I have it in my inventory. My main love is for “Bush Planes” and other quirky and cool aircraft. If you have to label me call me a member of the “Fly for fun” group.

        Yes, I had a Dani plane or two in my inventory found them fun for a while hower they became boring fast and over time, found themselves in the round file. I will give they look nice, and are easy to “Fly” but I never experienced the ultra nice sim transitions that people credit to them.

        Here is how I see this argument as a SLA admin. Day one of this whole debacle was handled wrong and a Campaign of Education should have been used. Instead of trying to “strong arm” the idea that these aircraft are fishy the case should have been presented in a logical way.

        The other side of the coin is just as guilty. Instead of knee jerking emotionally you should have taken the time to examine the presented case. And if you did not understand it ask for clarification.

        Now lets get to the “CFM” servers While it is perfectly in the right of a land owner to ban anything they want in property they pay the bills for and even automate the enforcement of said rules. The server handled things in the wrong way First, the server should present the pilot with a warning Secondly the server should allow the pilot time to react to that warning and turn around to avoid the return. Instead we got lots if ugliness Pilots AR-ing land owners, Bia Grifing hona lee Feild and bragging about it in the daini group and others egging her on.

        And now we have the current situation that People get Upset at the drop of a hat its getting very old for all of us I for one would like to see people talk this over in a adult way.

        Like

    • MeganAnn Mills says:

      I have no dog in this hunt. I don’t own any Dani planes, and my position publicly has been to stay the hell of a COMPLETE loser of a debate that has played itself out in many ways over the years since Sarah Golem was accused of ripping textures by Dustin (I think it was him).

      The result of this is always much more damage to the community than any damage the supposed offender may have done initially. This circular firing squad of short sighted drama masquerading as championing ethics in a community practically devoid of them unless convenient, routinely polarizes everyone into two equally unpalatable camps.

      What I do object to is the accelerant always poured on the inferno by builders who carry with them their own following (some of them simply sycophantic suck-ups) no matter the issue. Any criticism of other builders has the appearance, by nature, of being self serving, and does NOT lend itself to objective observation of the issue.

      In my opinion, violating what should be basic professional ethics (laws in some countries) to complain about someone else violating professional ethics is the core hypocrisy that leaves everyone with a bad taste in their mouths. Builders in the SL Aviation community, like it or not, are leaders who are looked up to by customers and users. It’s about time they act like it. There are enough out there to raise the issue who don’t benefit from it personally that creators can take the high road for the benefit of their business without harm to the issue in general.

      As someone who recently received full permission to upload and sell a mesh project from an internet creator, I can safely say that some who have complained have not always built everything themselves from scratch either. Have they always allowed their customers to believe they have, or given the maker(s) credit? I don’t know the answer to that, but I do believe no one in SL Aviation is the direct victim of the Dani issue, and it would help immensely if people would stop owning it as it they were.

      If you have an ethical problem with owning an object you believe was ripped off (the line here is uploading and selling it without permission or license), vote with your Lindens, but don’t foist your beliefs on everyone else by taking the torches and pitchforks to those who either don’t care, or quite simply don’t believe the charges. They will NOT change their minds, and it harms the whole community when you do, so stop peeing in your own pool as a community.

      Liked by 1 person

  6. Angela McKeenan says:

    This is actually a good article. Why can’t they just let it die already? BOTH sides. I thought they had banned the whole discussion? I can see why Tig has such a headache from it. We all do. New creators like my husband want absolutely nothing to do with any of the aviation groups in SL because this crap just carries on and on ad nauseam. He just gets on and builds amazing planes. He totally enjoys it. It’s the same in any SL industry with mesh uploaders and copybotters and rip off artists. That’s human nature. I can sympathise with the creators who argue against this because I watched my husband grind the McKeenan 727-100c out over months and months of testing, reworking, remodelling, yet more testing. That’s working full time on it btw….not part time. It does irk us that there are copybotting thieves out there. But we have seen stolen textures and images from many creators, not just the one in question. Oh,the hypocrisy. However, we simply don’t care. Happy New Year 🙂

    Like

    • Starbuckk Serapis says:

      Unfortunately the whole discussion was not banned. Only one side.

      Lets be clear about one thing: SL Aviation belongs to Tig. She has every right to do this. But by trying to make it a safe haven for the anti-dani crowd to freely rave without challenge is an exercise in futility in a group as large and open as SL Aviation.

      Tig is faced with a difficult choice: SL Aviation can represent the entire aviation community or it can represent only those that share a common view on this. It cannot be both. The only way to make the latter work is to lock down the group to invite only because even allowing the topic to be raised (especially by a moderator) will start the battle going again if the group remains accessible to the general population.

      Like

  7. tom mcgregor says:

    there is an answer to the group problem , exactly the same as i did in the sailing community , stopped all the flame wars and defaming by pushing it to blogs outside sl ,by starting up a group with owners/mods totally separated from builders / airports so discussion can be varied and calm and on simply flying topics and the pros and cons of what ever aircraft avaliable . one thing i will say tho is certain creators who paint themselves whiter than white to the flying community are not

    Like

  8. Drake Geraln says:

    Not having a stake in this either way. I do wonder if any of those denouncing Dani are actually the ones that are alleged to have been ‘ripped off’? If not then why are we not hearing from them and why have they not taken action if such is the case? Also, this really should be an A&B conversation A:the person or persons who were ripped off (as claimed to have happened) and B: the person suspected of doing the ripping off. If there is to be a third party it would have to be LL once they have a DMCA in hand. Other than that seems to me we have nothing more than a lot of D’s, I’s, C’s, and K’s who really should mind their business and leave the rest of us the hell alone xD

    Liked by 1 person

    • malcious says:

      Dani refused to be interviewed when asked.

      Liked by 1 person

      • Drake Geraln says:

        So since Dani wouldn’t be interviewed and none of those I see doing all the talking in the group and on here are the ones to have been allegedly ‘ripped off’. All we really have is the peanut gallery flapping it’s jaws. Ok then so nothing to see here I’ll move along o/

        Like

      • MeganAnn Mills says:

        Were I him, based on the side of the issue you’ve been on, and English not being my first language, I would not trust you to fairly represent what I managed to translate badly anyway. I do not think refusal to be interviewed can be remotely construed as an implication of guilt, in case any are poised to project that into the vacuum.

        Like

        • Drake Geraln says:

          So right on that , not commenting is likely the smartest thing to do and in no way implies guilt. It is interesting though that all those who love to go about touting the rights of free speech tend to forget this thing called due process and innocent until proven guilty.

          Like

          • MeganAnn Mills says:

            Reminds me of people who say “If you haven’t done anything wrong, why do you need a lawyer before you talk to the police?”. Because they’re biased and you’d be an idiot trust them.

            Like

  9. […] already pointed out the benefits of Open Debate in “so then this happened” so let me just re-iterate my point. Drama, that is to say discussion of ones opinions, is a good […]

    Liked by 1 person

  10. In wikipedia, editors have ideological wars over what ought to be in an article all the time. We have a guideline (we don’t have many actual hard-and-fast rules, really) – “Drop the Stick,” which is a way of reminding us we’re not here to nurture bad feelings or continually go after each other, but to make an encyclopedia.

    “Drop the Stick” might be an elegant way around ideological wars here in SL, too irrespective of who is more at fault.

    Like

  11. […] To conclude this rather long winded discussion; I said back in “So then this happened“: […]

    Like

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