The Seductive Trap of Disclosure

As the Inquisition of Tig Spijker slowly gets filed into the Old news Category of life and the phrase “OMG you guys are STILL talking about that!” becomes the battlecry of all those who ,never seem to say anything yet feel the need to, lecture everyone else on what to discuss. A gentle tone of accord has been reached within the communities amateur dramatic society which has finally changed it’s alert status from Red: Oh No she Didn’t! to the less terrifying Amber: Oh She didn’t….

Perhaps through this blog or perhaps because of the general rise of scepticism in the community; far less people were fooled by Tam McGregor’s post than had he posted it earlier last year and this is a good thing, for one it means that the community in general is becoming less gullible and that attempted character assassinations by ambitious trolls like Mr McGregor are becoming less successful.

You’ll note I have decided to stop being polite.

This has also had the effect that the usual suspects that poured forth to fuel the fire and bathe in the glow of Tig’s roasting found themselves staring at a very small flame and their words meet with mild bemusement and yawns.

While Tig, who has suffered daily abuse and harassment because of this, may not agree. This entire situation has been nothing short of a snowball, that Tig’s rivals and enemies tried to make an avalanche, but ended up crashing into the Great Wall of people not giving a shit. Thus for the one of the first times ever in SL Aviation Drama History, a conclusion was reached.

That “Tig Spijker and her builder Sly must disclose, and give credit too, the creator and original model she used and the website she downloaded it from.”

On the surface this would seem a very reasonable solution. After all there is nothing unreasonable about demanding Tig give credit to the original creators and people have the right to know if the product they are buying is an original or a re-hash of something downloaded. And in fact you do have that right, you also have the right to know (under the freedom of information act) if the product your about to buy is under despute, i.e is there any pending DMCA notices on it, etc etc.

So why protest this? Truth is I’m not, I fully believe we should enforce this. Problem is, so thankful are we to see reason in what has been a rather exhausting debate we forget the path that brought us here. The cyber abuse of Tig Spijker and her fans is not a product of a reasonable mind and the justification that she hurt the poor little Dani pilots with her words and her CFM servers is plain bullshit, as if returning a few planes can compare to a genuine attempt to drive someone to suicide.

By that logic I can now justify shooting anyone who slightly annoys me without fearing prosecution for the mass genocide that would entail.

Secondly we should also not forget that this entire situation is based on an hyped over-reaction to something that turned out to be a genuine mistake followed by a blithering idiot known as Tam McGregor not knowing what a 3DCad website was, which was again over-hyped to the point of extremity, going as far as people making Alt accounts to join in SL Aviation chats at random to talk about how cruel and hypocritical Tig was.

Which means this “reasonable” demand has been suggested by Tig’s Business Rivals (plus a few other loud-mouths along the way) to deal with a situation they made-up.

Thirdly, and this is the elephant in the room as I’m sure most of you have noticed by now, why does this apply exclusively to Tig?

We cannot demand from one builder what we allow other builders to get away with, that would be discrimination and somewhat ironic of the Hypocrisy shamers that Tig has found herself surrounded by.

This is the seductive trap of the whole thing, a situation was blown out of proportion by Tig’s Business Rivals in what was a blatant attempt at Character Assassination, which they might describe as a “shitty business practice” had the tables been turned, failed and are now trying to impose regulations on Tig that they themselves do not conform to. All under the guise of being reasonable.

So if we are going to implement this demand, which I do believe we should, the only fair course of action would be to implement it for all. If Tig has to disclose the sources of her builds, if it’s from a 3D Cad website or similar, then so must Dani. After all regardless if you agree with it or not, Dani is a downloader, his models can be found on Flight simulator 2010 through to X and he is in a legal despute with a company named Carenado even his freebie H1 Racer is stolen from another SL builder. So, why should he be allowed to claim otherwise, if Tig has to disclose her downloads, regardless if legally acquired or not, then so does Dani. In fact so does Annitah Babii, since she sells some of the exact same models as Cheerport and Suzi Air then they are obviously not her models. Envy Melody, ApacheLongbow, Rogue Harsley, iluvatar Millet, Michie Yokosuka and countless others all sell models that can be easily traced and found on various 3D model sharing websites.

If Tig needs to disclose, EVERYBODY needs to disclose. No exceptions.

 

 

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24 thoughts on “The Seductive Trap of Disclosure

  1. MeganAnn Mills says:

    “If Tig needs to disclose, EVERYBODY needs to disclose. No exceptions.”

    Absofreakinglutely!

    Because I’ve watched the evolution of aircraft building in SL, from early ripped textures from MS Combat FS to wholesale copying of mesh, I don’t really give the tiniest damn who borrows what from whom to make a project. MOST have always done it to one degree or another.

    Milestone founded his business on a script ripped from Niki, I believe largely because he’s a model maker and placed little value on what moved them around in SL at the time. He later, in common projective poetic justice, became paranoid about everyone ripping HIM off.

    The only issue I have had with Tig was her support of the importation of the Dani Customer Abuse server into the Blake (which as of last week someone reported people were still returning planes at HLT). The nexus of indiscriminately dragging innocent people into the mess by chat group campaign and force is the line I draw personally.

    The truth of the matter is, not all builders will provide any disclosure, much less full disclosure, and there is no way to overcome customer apathy enough to force it by the market. It ain’t gonna happen. So the question is, will that give others license not to disclose? Very likely. This HAS to be done by conscience, not demand, and there are damned few of those. I believe customers would respond positively to such disclosure, and it’s a potential marketing tool, but that’s only because *I* would as a customer.

    On a more serious note, if anyone believes ANYTHING in or about SL is making them depressed or suicidal, it’s time to get the hell out of SL and go find something meaningful in RL that makes you happy. This is why computers have an OFF button, use it. Failure to do so means the misery is self-imposed, so don’t blame SL for it.

    Like

    • Tig Spijkers says:

      I never supported the “importation” of those “Dani Customer Abuse servers”, I was probably the last person that gave in to the requests to put out that prim and the first to remove it again!

      When all this started with returning Dani planes I remember chatting with Dae, my security manager at HLT and we both agreed it was not a good thing to do.
      Months later I get an IM, as to why I haven’t set up the anti theft server. I gave in and set it up…. to inform and not to return. That caused a huge outcry and palaver and that wasn’t even about a Dani plane, but someone flying a helicopter from Vortex.
      Soon after that the damn thing didn’t work anymore and I made no attempts to reset , or get a new update. My final decision to remove it was posted in a notice in my group months ago and additionally Mal made an article about it.

      Yes, we do return planes at HLT, but not specific creators!
      People standing around on the demo rezzers or in front of the Vendor blocking it. Yeah sure we return those, they are blocking my visitors from using the demos and the vendors.
      I get people coming to HLT everyday with Dani planes and they are welcome.
      Everyday someone asks me are they allowed to fly here, because they heard from someone else they are not.

      I would very much appreciate people stopped spreading rumors that we return Dani Planes.

      Again for anyone willing to read this, we do not return Dani planes at Honah Lee Trudeau.
      We do return planes and other vehicles regularly for reasons that are interrupting the normal usage of the sim.

      I do disclose information to the various creator sources of my products on the instruction note cards and in the details on the MP.
      Here an example of the PBY:

      https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/PBY-5A-Catalina/7174481

      Model and Textures jr (jr4201.kruyschek) Owner of Adrenaloids
      Instruments created by Sylvira (sylviramaus) Owner of .: Virtual SYL Design :.
      Engine Sounds by Whitewolf Mumfuzz
      Scripts, animations by Tig Spijkers

      As for specific details concerning their sources, you can contact those creators.
      If you or anyone has any questions, just open an IM and ask. 🙂

      Like

      • MeganAnn Mills says:

        Thank you for the information, Tig. The person who complained about it last week said their plane was returned and they were told to take their Dani plane back to HW. That’s paraphrasing, as I don’t have the quote off-world. I asked specific questions to make sure it was HLT, and that no other reason was given. You had just said in the last section that planes aren’t returned from HLT now, which is why it caught my attention.

        Of course, if he’d been misbehaving with it he likely wouldn’t mention it, but the comment made to him did reference the maker specifically. You might find it odd if someone returned a S&W aircraft for ramming others with it and said for them to take their S&W plane back to HLT.

        I, for one, appreciate the disclosures and I have no reason to check on them. The leadership on the issue you’ve shown is also appreciated, and I hope others will follow.

        Like

    • Sue Ravensworth says:

      Indeed if someone is getting depressed or suicidal, it’s better to distance themselves from the source of depression, to find something positive and to seek for (professional) help. Sensitivity varies and people can get depressed for whatever reason, of course. That’s just part of the story. The whole story comprises active harassment and bullism, thus there is responsibility in potentially driving someone to leave or to get in depressive state, when constantly attacked on purpose with malicious and destructive intentions. This can’t be labeled as just self-imposed misery. Weeks ago I saw those idiots in action and I’d just hug Tig.

      But being bullied won’t make someone infallible and error free, of course. Everyone makes mistakes. So, if done in good faith, there can be understanding, and there isn’t need to make a huge thing out of it, maybe from a little thing. Just acknowledge it and fix it. No worries. I mean, let’s suppose you are in good faith, you trust a friend and it turns out she lied to you and she wasn’t the author? Or for whatever reason you really believed that was ok? Happens. Just acknowledge it, fix the attribution and give credits to the actual author, instead of someone else. It takes few seconds. Yet we can still read today in the MD-900 page: “Model & Textures created by Sylvira (sylviramaus)”. Finding someone more reliable, or, if you are kind and understanding, making sure she won’t do that again, and that she won’t provide you further models that weren’t licensed for commercial use (Air Tractor), would help to prevent future embarrassments too.

      As for the need of disclosures, Mal is right that if someone has to do something, everyone else should do that as well. If not, it would be the hypocrisy of wanting to remove the speck out of somebody’s eye, when you yourself fail to see the plank in your own eye. Planks as big as blatantly selling stuff ripped from FSX, and not caring, unless an advocate sends them a letter or police knocks at their door, and counting on that won’t happen; and when someone notices it, they engage their reality distortion field, insist it’s all their work, they deny any evidence and portray themselves as poor victims of envious people, with straw mans and other fallacies, grasping at straws.
      Both the speck and the plank are there anyway, neither diminish the other.

      But the main recognized point is getting quietly hidden under the rug of the disclosures argument. That point was about credits. There are licenses for that. Some demand it, some doesn’t. It’s nice to give credits anyway, but not always needed. What’s wrong is taking the work of someone else and claiming it as yours, telling you are the author, or crediting someone else who isn’t the author.

      Like

      • MeganAnn Mills says:

        A very comprehensive response, thank you. The point about depressive states triggered by online experiences is an important and serious one. As with many things online, expectation smothers between what “is” and what “should be”. Should everyone be perceptive enough to realize that anyone they are being mean to online may have a personality trigger for depression or self destructive behavior? It would be nice. Are they? Absolutely not. Is the expectation of it reasonable? No, it is not. Should they care? Absolutely, yet everyone should be aware that the dissociative personalities that are attracted to doing abuse in anonymity will always be a clear and present danger to the vulnerable.

        The sense of justice then moves to intent. If they are not aware, or even if they do not care, that their actions online may cause someone else harm, they become an anonymous rock against which the person who is keenly aware of their own vulnerabilities should not bang their head. The one party in the exchange who certainly is aware of the harm, and therefore has any known control over it, is the victim. Pounding your head against the rock while blaming the rock is not going to help you, The rock WILL remain an implacable force.

        It’s very easy to fall into empathy, sympathy and concern for the victim, especially if you care for them, but that support can also enable the victim to keep banging their head on the implacable rock. I’m for saving lives and promoting healing, and if that means providing a little “tough love” to urge victims to take control and preserve their own sanity, regardless of who shoulders the original blame, so be it. I promise you that the nature of weak and insecure minds in anonymity online will always replace one removed rock with another. This is not about justice, it’s about survival, and in potential life and death situations, justice takes a back seat.

        The disclosure issue tends more to justice, and I agree with you. Again though, in the yawning chasm between what is and what should be, there is no solution open to reality that forces all to do the right thing. The best you can do is lead, see who follows, and perhaps cause a ground swell in the herd of cats that induces them to turn. Ideals are a guide, but the rubber has to meet the road.

        Like

      • Tig Spijkers says:

        Hi Sue,
        As a scripter I write my own scripts, but I also have a library of assorted scripts I will access for ideas and inspiration.
        The first aircraft script was written Nov 25, 2003 by Andrew Linden and all flight scripts thereafter have been based on his original script/idea.
        When I script a new plane I will take the scripts from my previous aircraft, adapt them to the new aircraft and incorporate new ideas I have spinning through my head to improve them.
        You will often hear that a new product comes with all the whistles and bells, meaning the helicopter will have things, like FlySafe, cargo hook, rescue winch, HUD and much more.
        This is part of the pipeline I have created when scripting a new aircraft.
        It is very common and even essential for companies to create a production pipeline to be efficient in creating new games, models and products in general.
        The most essential part in creating a production pipeline is to have a good and extensive library/archive/inventory of all the materials you require to produce your items.
        In the gaming world if you was to go to Bethesda who make the Fallout game series, they will have a huge library of models and textures their developers access when creating new assets for their game.
        Any half decent 3D CAD modeler will have a library of models and textures they use when creating new products.
        If I was asked by someone new interested in making their own models looking for advice, I would tell them to download as much models and textures as possible to create a library they can refer to when making new models.
        Some people will now argue who is the original creator when a gauge texture was used that someone else used previously that was photo shopped from a photo from a website.
        As with the Andrew Linden script mentioned above and scripts I have written and also shared, no one gives reference/disclosure to those things that have become a speck in the evolution of Second Life’s LSL.
        It would be like asking Goodyear to reference the stone age man for the wheel.

        Like

  2. mcgregortamm says:

    your interpretation of of me being a troll is a bit ripe coming from your past character assassinations on this same blog so i,m far from being a troll , my first post was facts the air tractor was not a legal model to use which snowballed into the second about the same subject . third post was the MD900 which was never about it being a ripped model more so the fact its sold in SL as created solely by sylvira which its not and then the fight back begins from tigs supporters posting the terms from that particular site ,one point i,d like to make is that exact same model is on other 3d sites which has these terms (You may not, and you may not permit anyone else to:claim or misrepresent ownership of any Model which you did not create or develop;)
    who is to say it did or did not come from either of those sites only sylvira or tig can say that which has not been forthcoming .
    you bring up Annitah Babii,and yes my investigations conclude all of her items are down loads BUT !! a deal has since been done with the creator of some of her downloads
    ie:helijah,s to use the models and credit him as original creator so if she can do this why none of the others have the bottle to own up and do the right thing belies belief
    so mal who is the idiot here , me for bringing this issue out in the open or you for prolonging the debate with post after post about the same thing !!

    Like

    • malcious says:

      Yes Tam you are a Troll and as you so kindly put it, so am I.
      The difference between you and me however is that I spend time investigating things. You clearly don’t, in fact you knowingly and purposefully omitted relevant information from your article to make your argument stronger, which is exactly what Truth-Based Propaganda is and is not something I’ve ever done.

      But I like how you admit that Annitah was under your investigation. Funny how that never became an article.

      Oh and yes I am largely talking about the same thing, but that is because ,as I’ve already said, this is a complicated issue that requires a great deal of explanation.

      Like

  3. Starbuckk Serapis says:

    Do any of you own iPhones? Did you know that some parts of that iPhone were made by their arch rival Samsung? If you knew, that, it is not because Apple gave credit to Samsung, without which the iPhone might not even exist. It is because of publicity generated over the various lawsuits. (http://mashable.com/2012/08/27/apple-products-samsung-parts/#_QosJyTY6Oqc)

    Only in the “creative community” would anyone suggest that when you BUY the legal right to add someone else’s creation to your build, you are obligated in any way to “give credit”. In most cases you are not unless your agreement with the seller requires it.

    Regarding things downloaded from free sites, first rule is read their TOS. Unless that TOS obligates you to give credit, you are under ABSOLUTE ZERO legal obligation to do so.

    Most of these agreements only stipulate that you cannot present the item, itself, alone as your own. Once it becomes incorporated in your build, the overarching creation is yours.

    Giving credit, unless specifically stated and agreed upon by giver and receiver, is a courtesy. Nothing more.

    Liked by 1 person

    • MeganAnn Mills says:

      Exactly! Some courtesy and disclosure is what the industry needs after all the discord.

      Like

      • Rebecca Rathbone says:

        I don’t think you understand. Disclosure should only happen when required by a prior agreement or the TOS of said model. Otherwise it’s at the leisure of the builder/scripter in question.

        It might be “fair play” to disclose sources, like what I try to do (as long as I don’t forget like the airhead that I am) as much as possible.

        Want to know what’s wrong about all this crap? How I have had several instances of a cyberstalker, being surveilled by someone at flight events, and how I’ve been harassed publicly over my stance during this whole fiasco. That and being hit with a graphics crasher that caused such a cache issue that it bricked an SSD. (Unknown if the SSD’s days were numbered or not, but having it happen when I’m hit with a graphics crasher is a coincidence that can’t be ignored)

        When I got someone publicly saying they’ll try to ban me for nothing, and they are clearly on one side of this (the side I’m not on) then this has gone too far.

        That only makes me get LOUDER, not quieter. Because to me such behavior tells me I’m on to something.

        Like

        • MeganAnn Mills says:

          I understand perfectly. It’s my opinion that builders should disclose in the current environment, I did not say it would or could be compulsory. I also said the market won’t require it, because most don’t care. Disclosure is required when required, should be done when not. That’s my position. I understand the legal parameters of disclosure perfectly, this is not that.

          That behavior can happen from either side, and this is the price you pay for a public position argued in SL. You haven’t seen it from the other side because….well…you’re on that side. You side has no motivation to alt and abuse you.

          This is controversy in SL. I’ve heard similar stories and complaints from the other side. This kind of stuff always devolves into some characters behaving badly in anonymity. It has nothing to do with the objective validity of the side you’re on, it has to do with escalation, and often grown adults alting and acting like 8 year olds. I’ve been the victim of it myself for many years.

          Like

          • Rebecca Rathbone says:

            Yes but when this goes outside of SL, that is crossing a line.

            Like

            • The line is one we all make ourselves. If you leave a RL line that can be crossed in your dealings in SL, it’s a choice you have to process and take responsibility for. You can’t expect people of low moral standards in anonymity not to threaten to cross an arbitrary bridge you made. All the more reason to take what precautions you can and walk away from SL for a while. The one solace in this, by and large, is such people are cowards by nature and not prone to risk their own lives.

              Like

              • Rebecca Rathbone says:

                Actually that line isn’t arbitrary. There are actual laws in place in regards to harassment. At least harassment in real life.

                And several incidents have strayed dangerously close to that recently. At this point I take it I’m being forced out of SL by certain individuals and I won’t give them that satisfaction.

                Like

                • Ok, how do they even begin to know where you are, or how to get to you in RL? If you provided a link to SL from RL, that’s on you. If you did not, any threats are empty BS threats I run into commonly from people who get banned.

                  Like

  4. Hello all. I hope you’re having a great day. I’ve made the decision to bow out of the debate. All of it. Flying, boating, and sailing are fun. Arguing, insulting people, and using clever verbiage that makes others feel bad is not. I’m sorry for the amount of that I’ve done here and inworld.

    The last part of Meg’s post is important, but I’ll simplify it. If you are feeling depressed or suicidal regardless of the reason, for crying out loud seek some help or at least tell somebody who would be willing to seek help for you. It sucks getting past that point alone and many don’t.

    Like

    • Rebecca Rathbone says:

      So you’re saying people who are being harassed to CRIMINAL levels should leave?

      Like

      • MeganAnn Mills says:

        Since I’m guessing Crim won’t see your comment, I believe he made a personal decision for himself, and was not suggesting what anyone else should do. His only suggestion was a very good one about people seeking help in RL for RL issues, whether triggered in SL or not.

        Like

  5. Debi Dastardly says:

    It isn’t about your brick Rebecca. Are you any relation to Prok by any chance?

    Like

  6. Tank Kwaszes says:

    disclosure is something i’ve called for from the get go on this issue, and i’ve even gone to lengths (such as steaming and openly displaying my works in progress) to do so myself. Amazingly, Dani, annita, etc. all had the chance to stop this whole issue before it became such as all we wanted to see was proof that we even volunteered of our own work for theirs. What did we get in return? screams, yells, jeers, grief, etc.I have no issue showing people my work from start to finish, hell i’ll even teach them how to do it themselves, but you have to wonder when a simple request for others to do the same is met with open hostility, bia even trying to go so far as to claim my stream forgeries and made up. seriously, they have nothing to loose but everything to gain from open disclosure (as does the whole community) unless there is something to hide. And as Meg quite well put there has been too much hiding and not enough open doors for people to feel comfortable again. So we once again loose out to the pixelsex companies.

    Like

    • Did you ask them before or after the poop hit the paddles about their builds? If it was after, I can see why they would refuse, and not trust anything that was offered in return. Context is everything, and once the war against them was started, their attitude was “Why should we have to prove we’re innocent?”.

      I made an appeal myself, and asked that they talk to Karl. It was too late. Apparently, all the fuss increased their sales quite a bit. They were angry, and short on motivation.

      Like

      • Tank Kwaszes says:

        I’ve always been a fan of disclosure and an open door, it’s something i’ve always said i felt should be done and never cared much for secrets. Did i push harder for it after things came unraveled yes, was i championing it before yes.

        Like

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